Josh Freeman has thrown for 1,533 yards, eight touchdowns and three interceptions in seven games this season.
Two things I never thought I'd see in Week 9 of the 2010 NFL season:
• The Raiders playing a game that matters.
• The Bucs, with a half-game lead on the Saints, playing for the NFC South lead.
One of the great things we've seen in the first half of this season is the maturation of a 22-year-old quarterback, Josh Freeman, before our very eyes. Consider that Freeman has led the Buccaneers to three fourth-quarter comebacks on the road in the last four weeks -- against Cincinnati, St. Louis and Arizona. Not exactly murderer's row. But three wins, two in the final minutes, in hostile environments is a heck of an accomplishment for a young kid in the NFL.
"Our offense has a calm confidence,'' he told me Thursday. "We're not shaken up when we're down late. Last week in Arizona, we went out there [trailing 35-31 late] just knowing, 'We've got a job to do.' No big speeches. It's just succeeding at situational football. If we do it every day at practice, why can't we do it on Sunday?''
On Sunday in Atlanta, Freeman's big task will be identifying the stunting, moving Falcons front. Atlanta defensive coordinator Brian Van Gorder likes to throw changeups at quarterbacks, and Freeman can expect ends John Abraham and Kroy Biermann to stunt and sprint from different rush points much of the day.
Tampa Bay is 5-2, and geniuses like me are still skeptical, because the two good foes the Bucs have played, Pittsburgh and New Orleans, have beaten them by 25 points apiece. I asked Freeman what he'd say to those who don't yet buy the Bucs.
"People don't have to buy it,'' he said. "We couldn't care less. Our coach believes in us, and we believe in us. What anyone thinks outside this building ... who cares?''
We'll all be closer to believers with a win Sunday at 5-2 Atlanta.
***
With all respect to Bucs-Falcons, Oakland-Kansas City is the game of the week. That's something else that's hard to fathom, especially for the Raiders players who've never seen what it's like to play a big game in November.
"A couple TV people came around this week, and I saw 'em, and I said, 'Hey, I've seen them on TV.' But they've never been here before,'' defensive Tommy Kelly told me, laughing. "You know how it's been for us. We go home and watch the shows Sunday night, and our game always get one highlight.''
Pretty big game, Tommy.
"Biggest I've played here in seven years,'' he said. "No doubt about it. There's a lot riding on this one.''
Relevancy in the AFC pennant race, for one thing. The Chiefs looked like they might run away with the division until 12 days ago. That's when the Raiders began a two-game run that made them look like the '70s Steelers. (Shhhhhh. Don't mention the '70s Steelers around the Raiders.) Let's make that the '70s Raiders. Kelly's playing like Otis Sistrunk and linemate Richard Seymour like John Matuszak, making the formerly one-sided trade with New England look better for the Raiders. Oakland destroyed Denver 59-14 and Seattle 33-3. For the first time in their 51-season history, Oakland rolled up two straight 500-yard offensive games. Never have the Raiders won two straight by a margin of 75 points or more.
Oakland (4-4) can climb to within a half-game of the Chiefs (5-2) with a win. But these aren't papier mache Chiefs. Other than a freaky 35-31 loss to Houston, the Kansas City defense hasn't allowed more than 20 points on any Sunday. The Chiefs have allowed 30 points in the past nine quarters (they played five to beat Buffalo last week) and come into this game with the kind of respectable run defense they'll need to create long-yardage situations for Jason Campbell. Last year, Kansas City allowed 4.7 yards per rush; this year it's 3.8. But last week, Oakland riddled Seattle's at-the-time second-rated run defense, Darren McFadden rushing for 111 yards on 21 carries. So it's on this week.
You'd think the Raiders would be susceptible to the run, with their generous 4.7-yards per rush defensive average. Maybe not. In the past two weeks, they've held the Broncos and Seahawks to 122 rushing yards on 36 carries. "Our attitude is, 'You cannot run the ball on us right now,'' defensive end Trevor Scott said last night.
The Raiders have the look of marauders right now. Some of that has to be that Denver and Seattle aren't very good. But defensively, Oakland looks like it's playing 14-on-11 football. Against Seattle, here were the Seahawks' first five offensive plays: sack, rush for one yard, sack, run for minus-two, run for minus-four. The Seahawks didn't have a first down for the first 27 minutes.
"I really think the difference is we've been executing in the run game, and we've been able to force teams into some long-yardage situations,'' Kelly said. "As our coaches say, you earn the right to rush the passer in this league, and we've done that by playing the run better.''
Kelly said he sees Al Davis, who has been ill, most afternoons, and he watches the tape of practice and "is up on everything.'' I told Kelly that I can imagine what it's been like around the facility for the past few years, with Davis agonizing over the poor play of the Raiders, who haven't won more than five games since 2002. I told him I've gotten a few withering looks from Davis at league meetings for things I've written or said, and he laughed.
"You ain't the only one who's gotten those looks,'' Kelly said. laughing. "I've felt that -- lots of times.''
On Sunday, Kelly and his mates have the chance to make the boss very happy. It'll be a fun day in the Black Hole, and not just because the costumes will be vintage.
Protesters block train carrying nuclear waste by chaining themselves to the trackDozens of demonstrators gathered in protest of nuclear waste shipmentsFuel rods from nuclear power plants are transferred each year between Germany and France
Paris, France (CNN) -- Anti-nuclear protesters blocked a train carrying nuclear waste in northwestern France Friday, chaining themselves to the railroad tracks on which the train was travelling, according to local police.
Four French protesters and one German halted the shipment near a train station in Caen. Other demonstrators gathered near the protesters on the track and at the train station, city police Capt. Maurice Bonnefond told CNN.
The train stopped well before the site where the protesters were chained, he said. The demonstrators were forcibly removed from the tracks by police, Bonnefond added.
The anti-nuclear organization and Greenpeace ally GANVA, or the Non-Violent Anti-Nuclear Action Group, in English, claimed responsibility for the protest.
On its website, GANVA said its members took the action because "nuclear waste exposes the population to unmeasurable risks."
"It's a short-term risk in the case of an accident, but also a long-term risk for their health," a statement on the group's website said.
Fuel rods from nuclear power plants are transferred each year between Germany and France, commonly drawing protests.
Sen. Patty Murray wins in WashingtonRepublican challenger Dino Rossi concedesAlaska is the only Senate race without a winnerMurray has 2 point lead with 82 percent of the vote counted Thursday
(CNN) -- Washington Democratic Sen. Patty Murray will serve a fourth term in the Senate after challenger Dino Rossi conceded Thursday, two days after Election Day.
Murray held a 2 point lead with 82 percent of the vote counted Thursday night.
"This evening, I called Sen. Murray to offer my congratulations on her re-election to the U.S. Senate," Rossi said in a statement.
Murray thanked Rossi for his "gracious" concession in front of a cheering crowd Thursday night in a cramped Seattle pizzeria -- one of many small businesses Murray vowed to represent in the nation's capitol.
"I want to make sure Washington state has what it needs to get back on its feet," she said.
Murray said she would focus on creating jobs and making sure middle-class families get the tax cuts they need.
When asked about health care, she said she would see what Republicans had to offer, but that protecting middle-class families would be her priority.
"I have to really make sure that our families who are suffering so much ... families who were dropped from health insurance companies are not put back in same risk," she said.
Murray's victory gives Democrats 51 seats in the Senate and leaves Republicans with 47. Two independent senators also caucus with Democrats.
No winner has yet been declared in Alaska, the only Senate race still undecided, but CNN has projected that Democrat Scott McAdams will finish third place behind Joe Miller, the Republican candidate, and Lisa Murkowski, the incumbent Republican who is running a write-in campaign.
Washington state votes via mail-in ballots, which makes a close race difficult to call on Election Day.
Rossi, a former state senator, previously ran for governor unsuccessfully in 2004 and 2008. His challenge to Murray remained close until the end, according to recent polls and nonpartisan political handicappers, something that was largely attributed to the anti-incumbent and anti-Washington wave across the country.
Murray is a member of the Democratic leadership in the Senate.
Notre Dame wore helmet stickers against Tulsa in honor of Declan Sullivan.
SOUTH BEND, Ind. (AP) -- The University of Notre Dame president has sent an e-mail to students, faculty, staff and alumni that says the school failed to protect a student videographer who was killed.
Declan (DEK-lin) Sullivan died Oct. 27 when a hydraulic lift he was on toppled over while he was filming practice on a day when winds gusted to more than 50 miles per hour.
The Rev. John Jenkins sent an e-mail Friday afternoon saying that the school and he as president are responsible. He also wrote that words cannot express the school's sorrow to the Sullivan family and to all involved.
He said the investigation into Sullivan's death is continuing.
Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Spoof Facebook pages like this one popped up in reference to a magazine alleged to have stolen a blogger's article.NEW: Apparent Cooks Source FB page says site will continue, critics don't understand Cooks Source, a food magazine, has the internet in an uproar over copyright claims Blogger says food mag Cooks Source used her article without permission and didn't pay Internet outrage cropped up after a reportedly dismissive response from magazine's editor
(CNN) -- Roasted. Burned. Cooked.
Pick your favorite cooking pun to describe the treatment Cooks Source, a heretofore little-known food magazine, is getting after reports it lifted a blogger's article and then gave a peevish response when she complained.
It was hard Friday to find a corner of the internet where talk about Monica Gaudio and her run-in with the magazine's editor wasn't cropping up.
On Wednesday, Gaudio wrote about her discovery on her blog.
She said she learned about it when a friend congratulated her for being published on the site. Gaudio responded that she had never heard of it and that the article in question -- which detailed medieval pie recipes -- had been written for her own site.
She hunted Cooks Source down and proposed a solution: Donate $130, the equivalent of 10 cents per word, to the Columbia School of Journalism as payment.
What really set the internet aflame, however, was the response she said she got from editor Judith Griggs.
Gaudio said Griggs wrote her an e-mail that read: "[H]onestly Monica, the Web is considered 'public domain' and you should be happy we just didn't 'lift' your whole article and put someone else's name on it!"
"It happens a lot, clearly more than you are aware of, especially on college campuses, and the workplace.
"If you took offense and are unhappy, I am sorry, but you as a professional should know that the article we used written by you was in very bad need of editing, and is much better now than was originally."
Gaudio said the language that was edited was the medieval-style English used in the recipes. She wrote that Griggs went on to tell her the article is now fit to be used in her portfolio and said, perhaps joking, that because the magazine "put some time into rewrites, you should compensate me!"
That's where the internet jumped in. A friend and fellow blogger first wrote about the incident.
The story spread further after such influential Twitter users as fantasy writer Neil Gaiman and science-fiction/geek icon Wil Wheaton (combined, the two have a Twitter audience of 3.2 million) shared it with their followers.
"PROPOSAL: Mendacity will now be measured on the Cook's Source scale, with individual units known as Cheneys," Wheaton wrote Thursday.
The story was "voted up" to the main page of popular news-sharing site Reddit. Another blogger weighed in under the headline, "World's Dumbest Editor Incurs The Wrath Of The Internet."
At mid-morning Friday, "Cook's Source" remained one of the most-search topics on Google's "Trends" list.
As with virtually every internet phenomenon, Facebook users were chiming in, too.
Cooks Source's Facebook page, which had about 3,300 users who "Like" it as of Friday, was covered in story-stealing jokes and insults.
"Cooks Source got roasted toasted and burnt to a crisp," one user wrote on the page's wall.
"8. Thou Shalt Not Steal - Judith Griggs (there would have been 15 commandments, but Cooks Source took them)," wrote another.
A quick-developing meme in the comments saw users blaming Cooks Source for everything from the death of Laura Palmer on "Twin Peaks" to the Kennedy assassination to the inability to get an iPhone on any U.S. network other than AT&T.
At least several fake Cooks Source pages had also cropped up to mock the magazine.
On Friday, the magazine appeared to have created a new Facebook page.
"A new page as the previous one was hacked," read the "Info" section for "Cooks Source Mag."
A post cryptically said, "The previous regime has been removed," but did not reference Griggs directly.
Later posts seemed to echo Griggs' arguments as quoted by Gaudio.
"There's lots of people here that do not seem to understand a few basics yet they seem to all be experts in the print business," read one.
Read a later post: "For those that have asked POLITELY, no we will not be stopping the magazine, and yes we will be taking further action against anyone caught hacking."
Online foodies were all over the story.
A photo on Food Network star and Southern-cooking champion Paula Deen's Facebook page showed what the poster said was one of Deen's recipes used on the site.
"Thank you, this has been forwarded to our legal department," replied Deen or, perhaps more likely, a staffer running the account. Deen was one of several high-profile cooks whose articles appear to have been used on the magazine's site.
It wasn't the only place that online foodies were sounding off.
Some in the culinary community, while not exactly defending Cooks Source, sounded off about the ensuing Web pile-on.
"Not saying the Cook's Source editor isn't cretinous, but it's creepy when we get all lynch-mobby over stupid people with limited influence," Michele Humes, a New York food writer, said on her Twitter feed.
Griggs has not publicly addressed the controversy, either in interviews or on the magazine's website. Gaudio said Thursday she has heard nothing more from them.
The site did not appear to have an active e-mail link or other contact information Friday.
FBI officials investigate a shooting at a Coast Guard recruiting station in Woodbridge, Virginia.Tests link the Coast Guard shooting to others in Washington area, FBI says No one was injured in Tuesday's incidentShots have also been fired at Marine Corps museum, recruiting stationBullets hit Pentagon early October 19
Washington (CNN) -- Ballistic tests have linked a shooting at a Coast Guard recruiting office in Virginia to four other shootings at military facilities last month, the FBI said Wednesday.
FBI spokesman Andrew Ames provided no other immediate details.
The latest incident was reported Tuesday morning after a bullet struck the recruiting office, housed in a Woodbridge strip mall.
The description was "relatively similar" to October cases in which shots were fired at the Pentagon, the National Museum of the Marine Corps and a vacant Marine recruiting station, said 1st Sgt. Kim Chinn, spokeswoman for Prince William County police.
"Employees of the Coast Guard recruiting station called to tell us there was some damage to the glass, and police arrived and determined it was probably done by a bullet," Chinn said.
No one has been injured in any of the incidents, including when six shots were fired at the Pentagon early on October 19.
Ballistics tests connected the Pentagon gunfire to shots aimed at the Marine museum on October 17 and 29, as well as to an October 25 case in which shots were fired at a Marine Corps recruiting station in Chantilly, near Washington Dulles International Airport.
Chinn would not say how many bullets were found at the scene Tuesday. The Coast Guard referred questions to the FBI, saying it is taking the lead in the investigation.
The Pentagon Force Protection Agency declined comment on the shooting.
LOS ANGELES -- Grizzlies point guard Mike Conley picked up the phone in a Columbus, Ohio, hotel room last summer, called Marc Gasol and put him on speaker. "I told him how much I believed I was going to improve," Conley said, "how much more assertive I was going to be and what I was going to do to keep our team together." They talked for nearly 20 minutes. Then Conley hung up, dialed Rudy Gay and told him the same thing. After that it was O.J. Mayo and finally coach Lionel Hollins. Conley asked Hollins: "What do you expect from me? What can I do better?"
What Conley did not tell his coach or his teammates is that the conversations were part of an exercise designed to test his communication and leadership skills. The whole time he was on the phone, a sports psychologist was sitting across from him jotting notes.
Psychologists are becoming as fashionable in the NBA as personal chefs. The Lakers' Ron Artest thanked one for helping him to the championship last season. The Blazers' Brandon Roy saw one regularly over the summer. Conley, on a recommendation from Hollins, asked one to visit him during the offseason in Columbus. He did not know that the psychologist would spend four straight days with him.
"I would wake up and he'd work out with me, eat lunch with me, eat dinner with me, and then be back first thing the next day," Conley said. "It felt like I was being debriefed in a long investigation."
Conley was searching for an old self, the fearless attacker who raced to rims and led Ohio State to the 2007 NCAA title game, only to disappear behind NBA three-point lines.
"I became a player who was like, 'You guys do this, you guys do that, I'll just wait my turn,'" Conley said. "If you read scouting reports, they said I would pass every time. I had to get my killer instinct back."
Conley and the psychologist watched tapes from Ohio State, then tapes from the NBA, identifying when he was penetrating the defense and when he was simply shuttling the ball around the perimeter. Conley zeroed in on one tape in particular, of a game late last season against Denver.
"I was getting into the lane, going to the rim and finishing," Conley said of a 22-point performance. "That's the kind of basketball I used to play. It's the feeling I wanted to take into this season."
Coaches often harp on their point guards to pass first, score later, but Conley is selfless by nature. He played in high school and college with Greg Oden, so his primary responsibility was feeding the post. The Grizzlies asked him to find his inner ball hog.
"I know everyone wants point guards who pass, but in this league, you've got to score," said Grizzlies assistant coach Damon Stoudamire, who works with Conley. "He'd been looked at as a fifth starter, a guy you can leave open. He had to become a threat."
Conley reported to training camp intent on replicating that game against Denver. He led the Grizzlies in scoring during the preseason and averaged 15 points through their first three regular-season games. His scoring was up, as were his assists, and he was coming away with more than twice as many steals and rebounds per game than he did last season. Of course, three games is not much of a sample size, but it was enough for the Grizzlies, who rewarded Conley with a five-year, $40 million contract extension.
Much of the NBA community was shocked, Conley no exception. Only four other members of the '07 draft class signed extensions and three are franchise cornerstones -- Oklahoma City's Kevin Durant, Chicago's Joakim Noah and Atlanta's Al Horford (Jared Dudley, a valuable reserve for Phoenix, was the fourth). Besides, the Grizzlies just handed Gay more than $80 million last summer and they have Zach Randolph and Gasol set to become free agents after the season. They theoretically had to hoard money and cap space.
As recently as last week, Conley did not believe the team had any interest in extending him. Then his father and agent, Mike Conley Sr., called him in his Los Angeles hotel room Monday night and relayed the terms of the deal. "Thanks a lot, old man," Conley said. "You did it."
Zach Lowe: Assessing the Conley deal
Conley insists that the contract alleviates pressure, but the burden is on him to prove that these first few games are a true indicator of his progress. As his psychologist told him Monday night, "You can't stop now." The Grizzlies fell hard to the Lakers on Tuesday, but Conley scored 16 points with eight assists, five rebounds and three steals, prompting a scout to say: "I know there's been a lot of talk about his deal -- and they definitely could have waited a little longer to do it -- but I like what I'm seeing from him. He is much more decisive than he's ever been."
Conley also looks different. A 20-year-old wisp when he came out of Ohio State, he devoted the 2009 offseason to developing his upper body and last summer to strengthening his legs, which he believes will help him stay in front of opposing point guards and gamble for steals.
"I've flipped the way I think," Conley said. "I'm telling myself, 'Get a steal or get a rebound, push the ball, get inside and get to the rim.' In my mind, I've become a scorer."
The Grizzlies do not need Conley to go overboard. They had the highest-scoring starting five in the NBA last season and now their bench is improved with the addition of Tony Allen and the emergence of Darrell Arthur. They went 8-0 in the preseason, and while those records can be deceiving, 16 of the last 17 teams to win seven or more preseason games made the playoffs. The Grizzlies showed they were no fluke with an opening-week win in Dallas, their first in nine trips.
"We are right there, right around the corner," Conley said.
Owner Michael Heisley has guaranteed a playoff berth, but when it comes to long-term contention, Heisley is under just as much scrutiny as Conley. He must demonstrate that the money spent on Conley and Gay will not preclude the Grizzlies from extending Gasol, a true back-to-the-basket center who is arguably the most valuable player on the team. Gasol was encouraged by Conley's contract -- "It means we're serious," he said -- but the real test of that is to come.
The goal for the Grizzlies this season, beyond making the playoffs, is making the case that their nucleus is worth keeping intact. In a recent game, Conley gathered the team seven times, each huddle dutifully noted by his psychologist. When the game was over, the psychologist called him and said: "You should have made it 10. You're the one who has to keep these guys together." Conley thought back to the moments he missed.
His contract may continue to be a source of debate. His leadership, the Grizzlies are gambling, will not.
CHICAGO (AP) -- The New Jersey Devils say goalie Martin Brodeur bruised his right elbow in the second period against the Chicago Blackhawks and isn't likely to return.
X-rays taken Wednesday night were negative.
With New Jersey leading Chicago 2-0 at 5:27 of the second period, the stick of Chicago forward Troy Brouwer appeared to hit the area around Brodeur's blocker after he made a save on Patrick Kane.
Brodeur removed the blocker, shook his arm and rotated his wrist as the trainer attended to him.
Play then resumed, but Brodeur skated off the ice 21 seconds later following a stoppage in play. He was replaced by Johan Hedberg.
Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Susan Wright claimed she was a battered spouse. Prosecutors called the case "divorce by homicide."Susan Wright is resentenced to 20 years in prison for her husband's stabbing deathJeffrey Wright was stabbed some 200 times, then buried in the back yardSusan Wright claimed she was abused by her husbandProsecutors said it was a case of "divorce by homicide"
Houston, Texas -- A Houston woman known as the "blue-eyed butcher" was resentenced Tuesday to 20 years for stabbing her husband some 200 times.
Susan Wright was convicted of first-degree murder in 2004 in the stabbing death of her husband, Jeffrey Wright. According to testimony, she buried the body in the backyard of their Houston-area home.
The same jury that convicted Wright sentenced her at the time to 25 years in prison, but an appeals court overturned her sentence last year, saying her attorneys had bungled the case.
A new jury was seated last month to determine Wright's punishment, with possible punishments ranging from community supervision to life behind bars.
During more than two weeks of dramatic testimony, family members, Jeffrey Wright's ex-girlfriends, and neighbors of the Wrights squarely divided over whether the 34-year-old victim was a loving family man or a violent, cocaine-fueled abuser.
A medical examiner testified he was able to count 193 wounds on the body, with the actual number of stab wounds well in excess of that. Defense attorneys claim Wright killed in the heat of passion after years of beatings and rapes.
Prosecutors argued Wright was tired of married life, and angry at her husband's drug use and frequent late nights out. "This was not a battered woman -- this was divorce by homicide," said Assistant District Attorney John Jordan during his closing argument on Monday. He asked jurors to sentence Wright to no less than 45 years behind bars.
Among the witnesses not called in the 2004 trial was psychologist Jerome Brown, who interviewed Wright days after the killing. Brown diagnosed Wright with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, and told jurors last week she was in a "dissociative state" while attempting an elaborate cleanup after the killing.
Brown also testified that Wright told him her husband was asleep when she retrieved a knife from their kitchen and began to stab him. This differs from Wright's tearful testimony at her original trial, when she said she killed her husband in self-defense after he stood over her with the knife and said "Die, bitch!"
Prosecutors have scoffed at the idea that the 5'4", 120-pound defendant could have overpowered her 6'2", 220-pound husband, and argued to the jury she tied him to their bed before killing him. They also suggested she may have drugged him with gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, known as the "date-rape drug," low levels of which were found in Jeffrey Wright's system.
Because Brown didn't testify in 2004, prosecutors did not have access to his notes. Last week, however, Jordan questioned Brown about the discrepancy in the defendant's stories and about a telephone call from her original defense attorney, Neal Davis, on the eve of the trial. Davis had just read Brown's notes and realized they were detrimental to his client's claim of self-defense. The call was tape-recorded by Davis.
Brown admitted he responded with an expletive, and then said, "I'll take a look at my notes and see if there's any way to get around that problem."
Also new on the witness stand were two former girlfriends of the victim, whose colorful testimony drew occasional laughter. Misty McMichael testified Wright beat her repeatedly during their two-year relationship and tried to control her every move.
Prosecutors called the woman's story a blend of fiction and exaggeration, disputing her claims Wright that threw her down a staircase 104 times and kept her locked in a room above his family's flooring business. As she sparred verbally with prosecutor Connie Spence, the judge scolded McMichael, saying she was turning the hearing into "a circus."
Another woman, Marcy Holloway, came forward to prosecutors only recently, and testified last week that Wright was a patient, caring boyfriend with whom she broke up only because "I could not handle being with a man better looking than myself."
Wright's new defense attorneys argued that she has been punished enough, and asked for probation. "Her bedroom was a hell chamber. Her house was a prison. She's been in the penitentiary," said Jonathan Munier, adding that Wright has also signed away her parental rights. The Wrights' two children have been adopted by Jeffrey Wright's brother.
"He's the damn devil," continued Munier. "And how do you kill the devil? You can't. He's still here, still tormenting her. What more can she lose?"
Wright was given a chance to address the victim's family after the verdict was announced. "I just want you to know that I'm sorry. I'm sorry he's not here," she said softly. "I'm sorry you don't have your son, and your brother."
The five women and seven men deliberated for more than 10 hours over two days. Wright will be eligible for parole in 2014.
Instead of flirting during a job interview, wait until the position has been filled and send a friendly email.There are some inappropriate places to flirt with a potential mateHitting on someone at a funeral is downright tackyDon't jeopardize your job or potential job by flirting with someone in the workplace
(The Frisky) -- Earlier this week, a juror in a Connecticut murder trial was chastised by the judge for passing a note to the court marshal asking him for a date. After being alerted to the note, the judge told the juror he was a "'romantic at heart," but not in the courtroom, and said sending the note was a "g------ dumb thing to do."
Obviously, there are appropriate places for flirting and a murder trial isn't one of them.
Here are 10 more dumb places to play a game of "pick-up."
The Frisky: 10 celebrities who hate totally random stuff
1. A hospital waiting room
A hospital waiting room is prime breeding ground for anxiety. People are anxious about tests they're about to take, results they're about to be given, and all the things they could be doing in the hour(s) they're sitting there waiting for these unpleasant affairs. Anxiety is not the emotion you want in play when you make your move.
2. The gym
With all those hot bodies in skimpy clothes, the gym may seem like an ideal pick-up joint, but for a lot of people, the last thing they want to deal with is someone hitting on them when they're dripping with sweat and dying to finish their third mile on the treadmill so they can shower and get home.
Your best bet is to catch your crush on her way out or use your gym connection to say "hi" if you see him or her "out in the wild."
The Frisky: 11 women we want to run for president
3. A funeral
Come on, now; that's just tacky.
4. A job interview
If you must, grab a business card and send a friendly e-mail after the job is filled, but don't blow your shot -- at the job or a date -- by making googly eyes during the interview.
The Frisky: 10 tips to finding your match
5. In the underwear section of a department store
You should probably at least have dinner together before you know what kind of underwear the other prefers.
6. In line for the bathroom
Look, no one feels sexy with a full bladder. Catch her on the way out when she's had a chance to relieve herself and apply a little lip gloss.
The Frisky: 10 celeb ladies who have starred in underwear ads
7. Your therapy appointment
You're there to fix your problems, not make more of them.
8. A parent-teacher conference
There are far better ways to embarrass your kid (and yourself) than hitting on his/her teacher. Keep things professional at least until the end of the school year when a potential relationship wouldn't be a conflict of interest.
9. On a date with someone else
Even if your date is a bust and you both know it, you'll be the cad who has no clue about social etiquette if you make a move on someone else. You can always go back after you bid your date farewell and see if your dream girl is still there.
The Frisky: 30 things every woman should quit doing by 30
Chilean miner Edison Pena was nicknamed "The Runner," because he jogged to Elvis Presley's music while trapped underground.Edison Pena was one of 33 miners trapped underground in Chile for more than two monthsWhile trapped, Pena ran in the mine's tunnelsThe Elvis fan will be on Letterman on Thursday and is expected to visit Graceland in January
New York (CNN) -- Edison Pena, the Chilean miner who will take part in the New York City marathon this weekend, will appear on the "Late Show with David Letterman" on Thursday.
It will be the first in-studio interview for any of the miners since their October rescue, the network said.
Pena will also visit Graceland during Elvis Presley's birthday celebrations in Memphis, Tennessee. The celebrations will be between January 6-9, the Elvis Presley Enterprises said in a statement.
The 34-year-old will get a private tour of the mansion and Elvis' grave. After that, he will fly to Las Vegas, Nevada, to watch a Cirque du Soleil show based on Elvis' music.
"Pena jogged to music from the king of rock 'n' roll and helped keep morale high by leading Elvis sing-a-longs," the statement said.
He and 32 other miners were trapped about 2,000 feet below ground.
The 12th miner to be rescued earned the nickname "the runner" for jogging through one of the mine's tunnels. He was eventually forced to stop after rocks fell along his route.
He was originally invited to attend the marathon as a spectator, but insisted on running in the 26.2-mile marathon.
Despite speaking little English, Pena knows most of the words to Elvis classics and used them to keep the other miners upbeat during their 69-day ordeal.CNN's Lonzo Cook contributed to this report.
Ten bodies have been pulled from the mass grave near Acapulco, Mexico. Authorities say they expect to find more bodies.A mass grave was found in a village near Acapulco, MexicoTen bodies have been recovered and more are expectedThere is speculation that the grave is linked to the kidnapping of bus passengers
(CNN) -- Mexican authorities have recovered 10 bodies and expect to pull out more from a mass grave in a village outside of Acapulco, the state-run Notimex news agency reported, citing police.
The director of the state ministerial police, Fernando Monreal, said that operations at the grave were ongoing.
There was speculation that the bodies were those of 20 Mexican tourists from Michoacan who were kidnapped from a bus in Acapulco in September. The link was made by a video that surfaced on the internet Wednesday showing two men being interrogated about the kidnappings. They say that orders were given, presumably by their drug cartel bosses, to bury the bodies locally, in the town of Tres Palos, just outside of Acapulco.
The mass grave was discovered in Tuncingo, which is adjacent to Tres Palos. The source and the authenticity of the video could not be confirmed by CNN.
Monreal said that it was too early to determine whether the kidnap victims and the bodies were the same. He said they expected to retrieve more bodies from the grave.
The kidnapping of the 20 in the resort town alarmed many, but some reports and analysts, including the global intelligence company Stratfor, have posited that the victims were not tourists after all, but members of a drug cartel.
GOP candidate Meg Whitman reaches out to supporters after ending her run for governor of California on Tuesday evening.Dr. Ivan Walks: Post-election stress can affect supporters and voters on the losing side He says voters who feel stressed should try to stay engaged, talk to family, friends Supporters of a loser in the election can try to broaden his or her outlook, Walks says
(CNN) -- For weeks -- even months -- you may have been caught up in the election frenzy. You've been jazzed about a candidate or a cause. Perhaps you've volunteered for a campaign or proudly planted a sign in your yard.
The results are announced and the winners start celebrating their campaign victory, but for the losers, an election loss can easily turn personal.
CNN spoke to Dr. Ivan Walks, a public health physician and psychiatrist who has studied stress for more than two decades, about post-election blues. He is the former chief health officer for the District of Columbia.
CNN: Does post-election stress exist among voters?
Dr. Ivan Walks: Absolutely. People really engage in politics because they know things can change. When their candidate loses, they can be profoundly disappointed, and it can lead to negative things.
People can also spend a lot of money [during an election]. When you personally go out and get people to write the checks and your team loses, there's a certain sense of obligation, and you feel bad. I have met people who talk about how embarrassed they are, and how they feel like their judgment is being questioned by those around them. They feel like they've lost a certain amount of respect in their community.
CNN: How can stress after a major election affect a person's life?
Walks: It can have a lot of very serious effects. Some people who were backing the losing candidate might continue to accuse the other side and are unable to let go. I've seen that happen. People can be depressed and let that spiral into a depression.
CNN: How are families and communities affected?
Walks: One of the challenges for communities is people who are very active can disengage after the election, and you can have a leadership vacuum that can emerge on the losing side.
At the family level, what happens when your husband, wife, mom or dad has been out, day after day, walking the streets and walking up to doors? What happens when you come home after all of this effort and you have to look at your family and say you lost?
CNN: Are there positive lessons to take away from being on the losing side?
Walks: If you are someone who looks at the big picture, and your candidate does lose, there is a tremendous opportunity to maybe, in the first time in the whole election cycle, look at what the other person is saying and figure out why the other side's message resonated differently.
Maybe you can begin to broaden your perspective. If you really want the world to be a better place, ask yourself if there is a way to now integrate and to continue to work for that cause -- understanding the environment is different. That way, you are not so much behind enemy lines.
CNN: How can voters stop moping over the loss?
Walks: Taking out those huge signs; some people have those big billboards in their yards. I see people with bumper stickers still on their cars from two years ago. I think people have to remove those things in order to begin to heal.
My advice would be, if your candidate lost, try to do a lot of listening and try to talk about how you feel. You can express yourself by saying, "I really feel like my side didn't get heard" or "I feel like I really lost something." If people care about you, even if they disagree with your political views, they are going to feel for you. Stop trying to rehash the election.
CNN: Isn't there also comfort in knowing there will be other elections in the future?
Walks: That's sort of a tough thing to swallow. I have to sit here and be disappointed for two years. How about, instead, saying, "For the next two years, here's what we are going to do differently, and we are going to make sure the real interest is addressed."
A lot can happen in two years, and if you are going to disengage completely and then come back, I don't know how that helps things.
CNN: So what are some immediate things people can do to overcome the loss?
Walks: Find ways to connect with people who share your experience. Don't just disappear and go to your house. Find other people who are feeling concerned and sad, and see if you can reach out to others. You may feel bad, and there may be someone there you can talk to.
Also, re-engage with things you have stopped doing. Over the last several days, things may have been hectic. If you haven't gone to church in a few weeks, go. If you missed your kids' soccer game -- all of the things that make up the rest of your life during the election lulls -- then let them come back into your life.
Jennifer Mee, 19, was diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome in 2007, her attorney said.Lawyer says murder suspect was diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome"We're looking into seeing whether or not that may be relevant"Neurologist rejects the possibility of a linkLawyer says he's received "hate e-mails" over claims
(CNN) -- The lawyer for the Florida teenager who gained fame three years ago as the "hiccup girl" and is now accused of murder said Wednesday that he will look into whether Tourette Syndrome or another brain disorder may have contributed to the crime.
Jennifer Mee, now 19, was diagnosed with the disorder in 2007, after her nonstop hiccups of more than a month's duration catapulted her onto talk shows and into the public consciousness, lawyer John Trevena said.
"We're looking into seeing whether or not that may be relevant to her case," he said. "She has other conditions, too, and those may very well play a role in the case."
He cited "lower-level intellectual functioning" -- identified when she was in grade school -- as among those other conditions. "She has difficulty with basic literacy: reading and writing," he said.
Trevena said he would ask that a scan be carried out to see whether Mee has any brain damage. "There's going to be a battery of neuropsychiatric tests that will have to be conducted, because we do need answers as to whether these various conditions she has may have contributed," he said.
Mee and two male housemates -- Laron Raiford and Lamont Newton -- were arrested and charged October 24 with first-degree felony murder in the slaying of Shannon Griffin, 22.
About 10 p.m. the previous night, Griffin told relatives that he was heading out to meet a woman he had recently met online. He took his scooter to a vacant house where he and Mee met, police said.
She lured him to the rear of the house, where Raiford and Newton were armed and waiting, police said.
Griffin was shot several times with a .38-caliber revolver while struggling in what the suspects have described as a robbery gone awry, police said.
Authorities said they do not believe that Mee or Griffin, a Wal-Mart employee who had recently moved to Florida from the Gulf Coast, had known each other before their online encounter, nor do they believe Mee pulled the trigger.
All three suspects admitted their involvement, police said.
"He just thought he was going on a date," Griffin's cousin and housemate Douglas Bolden said Tuesday during a bail hearing for Mee. "Just a young kid grinning ear to ear about to go on a date, just as happy as can be. And I wave him off, and I never knew it would be the last time I would see him."
In a posting on its website, the Medical Advisory Board of the Tourette Syndrome Association rejected the possibility that the disorder could be linked to the crime.
"In truth, the diagnosis of Tourette Syndrome in a legal offender is no more the reason for, or an excuse for such offense than other medical diagnoses -- such as asthma or rheumatism," said the statement for the association, which seeks to reduce the stigma associated with the disorder.
"Scientifically, there is no evidence of a causal relationship between having Tourette Syndrome and criminal behavior."
Trevena, who said he has received "a lot of hate e-mails from Tourette's people," defended his quest when told of the association's statement.
"I think it's irresponsible and reckless to say that until we know exactly how the Tourette's will be relevant, and that's going to take a lot of expert study and evaluation," he said.
"It's far too early to say that there is a connection, but it's equally too early to say that there is no connection. All I've said publicly about the Tourette's is that she has it, and I have suggested that we're looking into seeing whether or not that may be relevant to her case."
He added that neurological conditions may not necessarily cause criminal behavior but could nevertheless prove to be mitigating factors, just as pregnancy is sometimes considered a mitigating factor when a pregnant woman commits a crime.
"You're not suggesting that the pregnancy is the cause of the homicide, but it's certainly a factor for the court to consider," he said.
The lawyer's argument did not convince Dr. Jonathan Mink, a professor of neurology at the University of Rochester in New York. "If he were to ask me if her syndrome were relevant, I would say, as a Tourette expert, that it is not," he said.
According to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, Tourette Syndrome is a brain disorder characterized by repetitive, stereotyped, involuntary movements and vocalizations called tics.
It is named for Dr. Georges Gilles de la Tourette, the French neurologist who first described the condition in 1885.
About 200,000 Americans suffer its most severe form, and as many as one in 100 show milder symptoms, the institute said.
Drugs can ease the symptoms, but there is no known cure.
Though hiccups can be a symptom of Tourette Syndrome, "It's a very uncommon form of tic," Mink said, adding that multiple tics are required for a diagnosis.
He cited a news story in which Mee told a reporter that she had no other symptoms. "In the absence of other symptoms, it's hard to say she had Tourette Syndrome," he said.
Though some people with the disorder do have trouble with impulse control, "This is not a disorder that leads to violent behavior, and that is not a part of the syndrome," Mink said.
On Tuesday, Trevena asked Pinellas County Acting Circuit Court Judge Donald Horrox that Mee -- who is being held in Pinellas County Jail -- be released on $50,000 bail. The judge is to rule Friday.
During the hearing, as Mee stood sobbing before him in court, she began hiccupping. "It comes back," Trevena said, though for shorter periods of time.
Airfares are more expensive than they were last year during the holidays, and they're unlikely to drop.Search airports within a 90-mile radius of your departure and destination cities for deals Shop now. Fares are likely to rise as the holidays approach Flexible travel days are likely to save you money
(CNN) -- Have you booked your holiday air travel? It's time to stop dragging your feet. Shop now, if you haven't already.
CNN asked Jeanenne Tornatore, senior editor of travel booking site Orbitz.com, for five tips for travelers faced with rising airfares and slim wallets.
Stop procrastinating
"A lot of people may be procrastinating because they think there might be those last-minute deals or sales that pop up. We're not expecting to see that this year," Tornatore said.
Prices are more likely to go up as the holidays approach. Peak-day surcharges have been added around Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's and capacity cuts across airlines mean more competition for available seats.
Average domestic airfares were up 13 percent in the second quarter of 2010 compared with same time last year, according to a report released Monday by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.
Expand your search
To get the best prices, include neighboring airports in your flight search. Tornatore recommends looking within a 90-mile radius of your departure and destination cities.
Sometimes competition with low-cost carriers at another airport will yield savings for travelers willing to drive a bit farther to catch a flight.
"A lot of people do think about those regional airports in their home city, but you should really also make sure that you're looking at and researching and finding out what the regional airports are in your destination city," Tornatore said.
Be flexible
The Wednesday before and the Sunday after Thanksgiving are typically the busiest travel days around the November feast. Thursday and Monday will be the least busy days around the holiday, according to Orbitz.com bookings.
Flying on Thanksgiving Day can yield some savings, Tornatore said.
"It could save you 30 to 40 bucks on your flight, and every bit can help when you're paying extra baggage fees and all of that these days."
December 23 and 26 are the key days to avoid over the Christmas holiday, Tornatore said. They're the busiest travel days during the holiday period and prices are slightly higher.
"The good thing about Christmas is that people, in general, are traveling over a little bit more spread out period of time, because a lot of people take their vacations around that time as well, so you don't have quite that compact weekend that you do over Thanksgiving," Tornatore said.
Consider a connecting flight (with caution)
Tornatore tries to avoid connecting flights.
"But if money is your main concern over the holidays, taking a connecting flight will definitely save you money," she said.
Flights with one connection can be more than $100 cheaper than nonstops, but it's a gamble during the busy holiday period.
"If for some reason your flight gets delayed and you miss your connecting flight, it's going to be very tough to get on another flight because they're all going to be full."
Leave at least an hour between flights if you do have a connection. Look carefully at each flight in your itinerary as you book; that hour is not automatically built into online flight search results.
Take the first flight of the day
This tip won't necessarily save you money, but it's likely to save you some time and aggravation.
Planes are usually sitting at the gate when you arrive in the terminal for the first flight of the day, and the earliest flights are statistically more on time than later flights, Tornatore said. And if there is a snag in your travel day, you have more time to resolve it before delays pile up in the system.
"If you're willing to get that 4 a.m. wakeup call, it can be really beneficial, especially over the holidays, to get out on that flight so that you don't get delayed later in the day."
The 600-yard tunnel features a rail system, lighting and ventilation.NEW: "It's not a good day for the cartels," says ICE director John Morton.NEW: Smugglers were caught in the act, Morton saysA 600-yard tunnel connected warehouses in Tijuana and San Diego, officials say26 tons of smuggled marijuana were found on the U.S. side and 4 in Mexico
Los Angeles, California (CNN) -- U.S. authorities have discovered about 30 tons of marijuana that were part of a smuggling operation using a tunnel under the California-Mexico border, officials said Wednesday.
The 600-yard tunnel -- which features a rail system, lighting and ventilation -- connects a warehouse in Tijuana with one in the Otay Mesa industrial area of San Diego, said U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokeswoman Lauren Mack.
About 26 tons of marijuana had been transported through the tunnel to San Diego, and 10 of those tons were intercepted Tuesday by authorities as a tractor trailer was transporting the load from the Otay Mesa warehouse, officials said. About five tons were found by the Mexican military inside the Tijuana warehouse and the tunnel, officials said.
Drug cartels on the border have become so powerful and sophisticated in recent years that many Mexican communities and areas along the border are patches of uncontrollable violence, experts have said.
"It's not a good day for the cartels," said ICE director John Morton. "They now can't move that size of drugs without digging a tunnel for 600 yards. It backfired on them.
"Obviously this is a cartel and organized drug smuggling of the highest order," Morton added. Authorities weren't able to identify Wednesday which cartel was behind the tunnel operation, he said.
The smuggling was active for about a month until this week's seizure. The tunnel was rather small, and an individual can't stand up in it, Morton said. He described the railway as "crude."
The seizure was also unusual because authorities made their bust while the smuggling was active, Morton said.
"We caught them in the act," Morton said. "We find these tunnels and they're usually abandoned."
The seizure was also one of the largest on the California-Mexican border, officials said.
"What's unusual about this one is the amount of marijuana found as part of this investigation," Mack said.
The 30 tons is considered significant by U.S. and Mexican authorities even though Mexican authorities seized 105 tons of marijuana in Tijuana last month, the largest Mexican bust in recent years, Mack said.
"So there's been some pretty big drug busts," she said. "We're not letting our guard down."
In the past four years, 75 smuggling tunnels have been discovered on the U.S.-Mexican border, most of them in California and Arizona, authorities said. In all, about 125 tunnels have been found since the early 1990s, when authorities began keeping count, with just one of them on the U.S.-Canadian border, Mack said.
Authorities will be investigating the owners of the Tijuana and San Diego warehouses, officials said.
A special U.S. border tunnel task force hunts for underground smuggling operations in and around San Diego. The task force consists of agents from ICE, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration and the U.S. Border Patrol, and they also work with Mexican authorities, Mack said.
In its surveillance of the Otay Mesa warehouse, the task force noticed suspicious activity Tuesday when they saw a tractor-trailer leave the facility. Agents followed the truck to a Border Patrol checkpoint at Temecula, California, and authorities found 10 tons of marijuana hidden in cardboard boxes on pallets, said ICE director John Morton.
A married couple driving the truck was arrested, he said.
The task force became the first of its kind in 2003, when it was assembled to deal with a growing number of underground smuggling routes on the California-Mexico border. The unit was also assembled as part of a post-September 11 security concerns, Mack said.
The longest tunnel discovered, found in 2006, had a length of seven football fields. That tunnel also connected warehouses in Otay Mesa and Tijuana.
The task force uses robots to scout out a newly discovered tunnel before agents are sent into it. Federal agents are trained like miners on how to negotiate confined spaces, and the San Diego-Mexico region is even used to test the latest ground-penetrating technology to detect tunnels, including by the U.S. military, Mack said.
The sophisticated tunnels -- with lighting, oxygen pumps and rail lines -- are typically used to ferry drugs from Mexico to the United States. The more rudimentary tunnels are just big enough to smuggle people into the country, Mack said.
"We've also been enjoying an unprecedented cooperation with Mexican law enforcement in recent years," Mack said. "So we get a lot of information from the Mexicans, and vice versa."
Airliners sit on the tarmac at Dubai airport Oct. 31, a day after a parcel bomb was intercepted in Dubai originating in Yemen.NEW: Embargo on shipments from Yemen extended to November 8 Yemeni authorities intensify hunt for militant cleric and bomb maker Germany bans all incoming flights from YemenUnited Kingdom also bans flights and the carrying of large printer cartridges
(CNN) -- Yemen is tightening security at all of its airports in the aftermath of a plot to send bombs from Yemen to the United States, the country's National Civil Aviation Security Committee said Monday.
"Every piece of cargo and luggage will go through extensive searching" at all of its airports, the agency said.
Cargo companies such as DHL, FedEx and UPS will be required to make more stringent checks before accepting any packages, according to the committee.
Other countries also put restrictions in place Monday in reaction to the security concern.
Germany banned all incoming flights from Yemen, air traffic control officials said.
And in the United Kingdom, Home Secretary Theresa May told Parliament that all passenger and cargo flights, as well as all flights holding unaccompanied freight from Yemen and Somalia, will be banned for a month, at which time the measure will be reviewed. Somalia was included in the ban because of the possibility of contact between al Qaeda in Yemen and terrorist groups there.
Britain banned passengers from carrying toner cartridges larger than 500 grams in hand baggage on flights departing the country.
South Korea is stepping up security ahead of a summit of world leaders next week, it announced Monday.
Incheon International Airport will inspect all air cargo coming from destinations on the list of nations that sponsor terrorism, South Korean customs said Monday.
The FBI has dispatched teams of explosive experts to the United Kingdom and United Arab Emirates to help examine the explosives found late last week, a federal law enforcement official said.
The parcel companies also remained on alert.
FedEx, for instance, is not transporting or accepting any parcels originating from Yemen, spokesman Jim McCluskey said. The company continues to work with U.S. authorities to assure that the highest safety levels are met, he said. It also is working to clear packages that have been held since Friday.
An embargo on shipments from Yemen, which was set to expire Monday, was extended through November 8, a U.S. Transportation Security Administration official said.
A senior Yemeni government official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media, said the decisions to cancel flights and shipments out of Yemen will be interpreted as a "collective punishment" against the country.
The Yemeni public will see it as a collective punishment for unclear gains, the official said. Nobody benefits from this except al Qaeda, he added.
Anybody who's associated with al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is a subject of concern. --John Brennan
Meanwhile, Yemeni authorities are intensifying operations to capture militant cleric Anwar al-Awlaki and to capture or kill al Qaeda bomb maker Ibrahim Hasan al-Asiri, the senior official said.
Investigators in Yemen strongly suspect that al-Asiri, al Qaeda's top bomb maker in the region, is behind the explosive devices sent in the parcels, he said.
U.S. authorities are also looking at al-Asiri because the parcel bombs used the same explosive, PETN, as last year's foiled underwear bomber, also linked to him.
Authorities, however, have not divulged details about the purported links between al-Asiri and the explosives.
Yemen needs "a lot of help" to fight al Qaeda, an aide to the country's prime minister said Monday.
"Al Qaeda has got a global sort of agenda, so you need global collaboration and regional collaboration," Mohammed Qubaty said.
"We need a lot of help as regards security information, logistics," and new ways to confront them, he said, even as he emphasized that Yemen does not want foreign troops on its soil.
"We have got our security and our armed forces on the ground there," he said, saying the country does not want to become another Iraq, presumably referring to the 2003 U.S. invasion.
The U.S. military commander credited with helping reduce violence in Iraq said Washington had been concerned about Yemen for some time.
"When I was the commander in Iraq, we already saw the problems starting to loom in Yemen," Gen. David Petraeus said.
He said that when he was in charge of all U.S. military forces in the region, "We did focus a great deal of additional attention on helping our Yemeni partners there, and the events of recent days have shown why that was valid."
On Friday, authorities in the United Arab Emirates and Britain found two packages with explosives that were destined for synagogues in Chicago, Illinois.
The explosive found in the United Arab Emirates may have traveled on passenger planes to get there, airline officials said Sunday.
Both explosives appear to have been designed to detonate on their own, without someone having to set them off, the top White House counterterrorism official said.
"It is my understanding that these devices did not need somebody to detonate them," said John Brennan, President Barack Obama's assistant for homeland security and counterterrorism.
U.S. investigators believe that bomb maker al-Asiri, 28, is linked to that package and another one found on an airplane in Britain's East Midlands Airport on Friday, a federal official, who was briefed by authorities, said Sunday.
Al-Asiri, who is thought to be in Yemen, is a Saudi who was high on Saudi Arabia's list of most wanted published in February 2009. He is also believed to be the bomber who designed last year's attempt to blow up an airliner on December 25.
"The thinking is it's the same person or group of people that built the underwear bomb because of the way it's put together," said a U.S. government official, who had been briefed by multiple U.S. authorities and law enforcement sources. "But this one is about four times as powerful."
Separately, an engineering student arrested in Yemen was released Sunday, along with her mother, according to her father, Mohammed Al-Samawi.
Human rights attorney Abdul-Rahman Barman earlier identified her as Hanan Al-Samawi, a fifth-year student at Sanaa University in the Yemeni capital.
A high-level source in the United Arab Emirates said Hanan Al-Samawi's name was found on the cargo manifest of the device found in Dubai.
She said Monday that she was not guilty.
"I am totally innocent, and there is no proof against me, and that's why I have been released," she said.
Authorities do not have any American suspects, a U.S. official said.
Two schools in Yemen were being looked at in connection with the plot and had been on the radar of U.S. officials, the official said.
The explosive device found in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, was contained in a Hewlett-Packard printer and had a motherboard originating from a mobile phone but did not have a SIM card in it, the high-level source said.
The device was professionally assembled, the source said. The motherboard was connected by a striker to the printer head and then to the cartridge, which was filled with explosives.
Authorities have the serial number of the motherboard and the printer, and they are searching to see where it was sold, how it was paid for and what information they can glean about the people who performed those transactions, according to the source.
Authorities believe an explosive device found at the East Midlands airport flew from Yemen to a Persian Gulf state and then to Cologne, Germany, the official said. The device was then transferred onto a UPS plane.
Investigators are still attempting to retrace the route of the Dubai device, according to the high-level official. Some believe that it went to Doha, Qatar, on Qatar Airways, where it spent the night before traveling to Dubai the following day. However, it does appear the devices flew on commercial passenger planes, the high-level official said.
Screening the devices would have been difficult, since printers normally contain computer parts and wires, according to Richard Quest, CNN's aviation correspondent.
American authorities are now endorsing British Prime Minister David Cameron's position that the explosives were designed to take down an airplane, the official said. However, a U.S. official said Sunday that the United States has not drawn any conclusions on the intent of the bombs and whether they were intended to explode in flight, at the synagogues or somewhere else.
American and British authorities think al Qaeda's branch in Yemen is linked to the plot.
A key figure in the group is al-Awlaki, the American-born Yemeni militant cleric whom U.S. authorities have linked to Fort Hood shooting suspect Maj. Nidal Hasan and the man accused in the Christmas Day bomb attempt.
On Friday, Brennan declined to name al-Awlaki specifically as a suspect.
"Anybody who's associated with al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is a subject of concern," he said.
The U.S. Transportation Security Administration is sending six inspectors to Yemen to help improve cargo security, an official with the agency said Sunday.
"Even before this incident, 100 percent of identified high-risk cargo on inbound passenger planes was being screened," TSA Administrator John S. Pistole said in a statement Sunday, noting that security procedures will evolve based on the latest intelligence information.
Over the past several months, Yemen, which wants to be seen as a committed partner in the fight against terrorism, has launched several offensives against al Qaeda in its country but has not captured al-Awlaki.CNN's Caroline Faraj, Bharati Naik, Caroline Paterson, Jeanne Meserve, Mohammed Jamjoom, Susan Candiotti, Brian Walker and Carol Cratty contributed to this report.
Murkowski: We are not done yet"We are in the process of making history," Sen. Murkowski says early WednesdayMurkowski trying to win re-election through write-ins after losing GOP primary in AlaskaWrite-in candidates combined, including Murkowski, held lead early WednesdayMurkowski pitted against Tea Party-backed Joe Miller, Democrat Scott McAdamsWatch CNN live on TV, online and on your iPhone to get all the news and results from the hotly contested 2010 midterm elections. And share your election experiences with CNN iReport.
(CNN) -- Sen. Lisa Murkowski's bid to become only the second person to win a write-in campaign for U.S. Senate appeared on track in Alaska early Wednesday, with write-in candidates leading a Tea Party-backed Republican who beat her in a primary.
But even if the write-ins remained ahead of Republican nominee Joe Miller and Democratic candidate Scott McAdams, the outcome of Alaska's Tuesday general election apparently wouldn't be known for days, because officials need to determine which write-in votes actually went to Murkowski.
"We are in the process of making history," Murkowski, who is seeking a second full term, said early Wednesday.
Although Murkowski told supporters in Anchorage, Alaska, late Tuesday that the outcome wasn't yet known, she was clearly optimistic about her chances.
"They said you can't do it, [that] you can't win a write-in campaign, not in Alaska, not anywhere. They said we can't do it," Murkowski said. "Do they know Alaska?"
With 73 percent of precincts reporting, write-in candidates as a group had 40 percent of the vote, with Miller collecting 35 percent and McAdams 24 percent, according to an unofficial count from The Associated Press.
Alaska had dozens of eligible write-in candidates. Officials didn't plan to read the write-in votes until November 18, in part because they need to wait for mail-in votes, according to the state's election division.
With a victory, Murkowski would avenge her August primary loss to Miller in the latest chapter of a feud between her and his main backers, including the Tea Party Express and former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.
She told CNN Wednesday morning that, although she wasn't her party's nominee, she intended to caucus with Republicans should she win.
"This is about a can-do people," Murkowski told her supporters late Tuesday. "When they tell us we can't do something, what do we do? We stand up just a little bit straighter, just a little bit taller, and we take it on."
"We're doing it for Alaska, for our kids, for our families, for the people in this state, because this is the right thing to do," she added.
The Tea Party Express, a national Tea Party organization based in Sacramento, California, endorsed Miller earlier this summer and spent nearly $600,000 during the primary campaign to help him defeat Murkowski.
The primary race was so close, with Miller eventually garnering 51 percent, that Murkowski didn't concede until a week after the vote, while absentee ballots were still being counted. She announced a write-in candidacy in September.
Miller backers accused her of going back on her word to support the winner of the GOP primary. Murkowski's campaign took aim at the California-based Tea Party Express, accusing it of trying to meddle in Alaska and steal the seat.
The race also was another entanglement between the Murkowski family and Palin, the 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee who endorsed Miller.
Murkowski was appointed to her post in 2002 by her father, Frank Murkowski, who had given up the seat to become governor. In 2006, Palin defeated the elder Murkowski in a gubernatorial primary.
Miller, an attorney and former U.S. Army officer, was fighting against controversies in the race's last few weeks, including allegations that he was disciplined years ago for improperly using government computers for private use and then lied about it. Later, Miller's security detail -- two active-duty soldiers hired by a third party working for Miller -- handcuffed a journalist trying to question him. The Army is investigating the soldiers' involvement.
During a debate last month, Murkowski took aim at Miller, a U.S. Military Academy graduate, asking him, "What would your instructors, what would your classmates at West Point say about how well you have lived up to your code of honor?"
At a subsequent rally, Palin came to Miller's defense.
"I find it shameful .. this establishment part politician, shamefully used Joe Miller's honorable military service as a means to attack him," Palin said.
McAdams, the mayor of Sitka, Alaska, was expected to be helped by having Murkowski and Miller share GOP votes, but he always faced long odds in the heavily Republican state.
Strom Thurmond of South Carolina was the first to pull off a write-in election to the Senate, in 1954.CNN's Drew Griffin, Paul Steinhauser, Kathleen Johnston and Alexander Mooney contributed to this report.
Catholics to learn new wording for Mass – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs /* */.hide-if-no-js {display: none;}.recentcomments a{display:inline !important;padding: 0 !important;margin: 0 !important;}.cnnShareThisTitle a { float:right; padding-left:0; }.cnnShareThisItem a { padding-left:20px; }#cnnBlogContentArea .cnnPostWrap { overflow:visible; }#hdr-banner h1 { font-size:100%; }Home |Video |NewsPulse |U.S. |World |Politics |Justice |Entertainment |Tech |Health |Living |Travel |Opinion |iReport | Money |Sports November 3rd, 201011:38 AM ETShare this on:FacebookTwitterDiggdel.icio.usredditMixxMySpaceStumbleUponShare Comments (145 comments)Permalink #custom-tweet-button { padding: 20px 0 0 10px; }Tweet Catholics to learn new wording for MassRoman Catholics are being taught new wording for many familiar prayers.
Roman Catholics will have to learn new wording for some of their most familiar prayers.
The Vatican is rolling out a new translation of the Roman Missal, the text around which the Mass and its prayers are built.
It's the first major revision since Pope Paul VI issued the original Missale Romanum in Latin in 1970.
The English translation was released in 1973 and revised two years later. Those translations were prompted by the Second Vatican Council of 1962, which did away with the Latin Mass and decreed that Masses should be celebrated in each parish's local language.
Pope John Paul II ordered the latest translation in 2000. The first use of the new text will happen about a year from now, on November 27, 2011, according to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
The bishops' conference has been conducting workshops all year to help local clergy and lay ministers prepare for the changes.
Here's a sampling of the wording changes, some of which are throwbacks to phrasing from the late 1960s and early '70s:
Greeting and other dialogues
Old: (Priest) The Lord be with you. (People) And also with you.
New: (Priest) The Lord be with you. (People) And with your spirit.
Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God)
Old: (Priest) This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to his supper. (People) Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.
New: (Priest) Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world. Blessed are those called to the supper of the Lamb. (People) Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
There are also significant changes to the Penitential Act (“I confess to Almighty God …”), the Gloria (“Glory to God in the highest …”), the Nicene Creed (“We believe in one God …”), the Sanctus (“Holy, Holy, Holy Lord, God of power and might …”), and other parts of the Mass.
To see all the changes and a revised order of Mass, go to the bishops' website.
"The long-term goal of the new translation is to foster a deeper awareness and appreciation of the mysteries being celebrated in the Liturgy," the bishops write on their website.
"The axiom 'Lex orandi, lex credendi' - ‘What we pray is what we believe’ - suggests that there is a direct relationship between the content of our prayers and the substance of our faith."
Posted by: The Editors - CNN Belief Blog Filed under: Catholic Church • Faith Now • Mass We recommend From around the web Next entry »Oklahomans vote against Sharia law« Previous entryAll Christians 'targets,' Iraqi militant group says soundoff (145 Responses) GB
@ Reality
Check out these verses from the book of Job. These verses (and the whole OT) testifies of Jesus Christ by prophesying of his life at least thousands of year before he lived. I am not a Catholic; I believe in Jesus and not in Mary or any idols (saints).
20:11 His bones still full of vigor [of his youth] Lie down in the dust with him. 21:32 He is brought to the grave, While a watch is kept at his tomb 20:24 He shall flee from the iron weapon, and the bow of steel shall strike him through. 20:25 It is drawn; and cometh out of his body; 7:21 now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be 23:11 I have followed in his tracks, kept his way without swerving, I have not deviated from what his lips commanded.
If you were knowledgeable about all the accurate prophesies in the Bible, how they testified of Jesus, you too would comprehend why us Christians believe he is the Son of the Most High God!
November 3, 2010 at 1:55 pm | Report abuse | Reply Valerie
GB- Catholics do NOT worhip Mary or any saints. We simply reverence them, and believe that those in Heaven can intercede for us, especially Mary, to our Lord. I am sure as a Christian, you believe Mary to be the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ? Well, imagine for a moment the bond between our Lord and her. Do you think he would not fulfill a request coming from her? Remember the water turned into wine at Cana? This was done upon his mother's request, even though Jesus had told her that "his time had not yet come" he performed this first miracle, anyway.
I hope I did ok explaining the whole "Mary" thing, as I do know most non catholics get confused by this.
Catholics worship the Trinity of God- The Father, The Son and They Holy Ghost, all three distinct "persons" in ONE nature, which is God. This is hard to understand, and is a mystery as well. God Bless.
November 3, 2010 at 2:43 pm | Report abuse | Reality
Another take on the "prophecies/fortune telling" from the Book of Job:
From Professor JD Crossan who has exhaustely studied all the doc-uments to include non-scriptural docu-ments written from 1 CE to 300 CE. (as per the conclusions found in his book Who is Jesus?)
"Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."
"Traditionally, Christians have said, 'See how Christ's passion was foretold by the prophets." Actually, it was the other way around. The Hebrew prophets did not predict the events of Jesus' last week; rather, many of those Christian stories were created to fit the ancient prophecies in order to show that Jesus, despite his execution, was still and always held in the hands of God."
"In terms of divine consistency, I do not think that anyone, anywhere, at any time, including Jesus, brings dead people back to life."
November 3, 2010 at 2:59 pm | Report abuse | Reality
Another take on the "prophecies/fortune telling" from the Book of Job:
From Professor JD Crossan who has thoroughly studied all the doc-uments to include non-scriptural docu-ments written from 1 CE to 300 CE. (as per the conclusions found in his book Who is Jesus?)
"Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."
"Traditionally, Christians have said, 'See how Christ's passion was foretold by the prophets." Actually, it was the other way around. The Hebrew prophets did not predict the events of Jesus' last week; rather, many of those Christian stories were created to fit the ancient prophecies in order to show that Jesus, despite his execution, was still and always held in the hands of God."
"In terms of divine consistency, I do not think that anyone, anywhere, at any time, including Jesus, brings dead people back to life."
November 3, 2010 at 3:07 pm | Report abuse | Mike, not me
Ah yes always go back to Crossan as the one and only person that agrees. Forget the fact that he was called out being a fraud for the horrible methods used in the Jesus Seminars. That he does not even qualify as a NT scholar for his "lack training in the Semitic background of the NT"
November 3, 2010 at 3:44 pm | Report abuse | capnjammer
The Romans wanted to as-similate Judaism in order to take it over, as they were fond of doing with the cultures they conquered. What better way than to forge their Messiah from their own pagan beliefs. If you studied anything besides your own religion you would find that the Jesus story is plagiarized, in some places (like the Chri-stmas story in Luke) almost word for word from Pagan sources. There are literally hundreds of pagan myths involving a man who was born of a vir-gin on December 25th, called the son of god, who had 12 apostles, who performed miracles, died for the sins of the world, rose from the grave at the feast of Ishtar (Easter), and ascended into heaven. You would realize that no other source besides the Bible references Jesus except one sentence in Josephus which has been verified as a hoax (considering Josephus plainly stated he believed Vespasian to be the Messiah), even though the Romans kept very accurate records, and you'd think someone besides four men fifty years after the fact would have mentioned that on the day Jesus died all the graves opened and a zombie army was walking around Jerusalem.
The OT prophecies would have been very easy to fulfill, in fact, one verse (where Jesus rode in to town on a donkey) says Jesus did it IN ORDER TO fulfill the prophecy. And, all the verses you quoted from Job are NOT Messianic prophecies. Job 20:11 talks about a man who was sinful in his youth, who hides the fact that he is a wicked man. 21:32 is talking about the wicked man who has done such terrible things that they watch his grave out of fear. In fact, all the verses you mentioned are talking about wicked men. You'd know that if you looked at the whole verse instead of taking it out of context in order to satisfy your particular religious needs. I challenge you to read the entirety of those chapters and see what the context is. You might not be happy with what you find.
November 3, 2010 at 4:35 pm | Report abuse | Me
I'm sure as a Christian, you have asked friends or loved ones to pray for you, right?
This is no different than how Catholics "ask" Mary or the Saints to pray for us. We do not believe they can grant any requests, we merely understand that they are a valuable army in heaven to intercede on our behalf. Of course, since their earlthly life has ended, the only way to commune with them is through prayer. This is what causes confusion amongst non-Catholics.
November 3, 2010 at 4:36 pm | Report abuse | Reality
Mike, Mike, Mike,
Hmmm, still suffering from a severe case of the Three B Syndrome aka Bred, Born and Brainwashed in that old time Christianity.
With respect to Professor Crossan, you might want to read some of his over 20 books on the historical Jesus. His and the books/conclusions of other historical Jesus exegetes are partially listed at earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html.
With respect to the Jesus Seminarians:
"The ground-breaking work of the Jesus Seminar appears in two texts: The Five Gospels (1993) and Acts of Jesus (1998), both published by Polebridge Press. The Jesus Seminar is a group of biblical scholars chaired by Robert Funk, PhD., who took the unprecedented step of voting as a group on the authenticity of the teachings and acts of Jesus. The following observations are taken from the introductory chapters of 5G and AOJ.
Every individual saying and action was examined and rated by the Seminar as to whether Jesus actually said it or did it, or whether it was primarily the product of the author of the gospel. Building on the earlier work of individual scholars, the Seminar's research represents an unprecedented cooperative effort to separate what Jesus really said and did from what gets added on over time in the story telling and writing process.
In addition to the four Gospels: Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John, that we have known for two thousand years, the Seminar also included the Gospel of Thomas in their considerations. Thomas consists of sayings of Jesus that were discovered at Nag Hamadi, along with hundreds of other ancient texts, in a major archeological discovery in 1945. Thomas is not in story form, but it is a series of sayings. Many of the sayings are very similar to what appear in the other four gospels, and it was used by the Seminar as an independent report of what Jesus said.
The Seminar's work assumes that for a period of some years the stories about Jesus were passed on by word of mouth as his followers practiced his teachings and some anxiously expected his return. Ten years may have gone by before teachings and actions began to be written down, and perhaps another ten years passed before they were put into larger collections like Thomas. These collections were probably taking place about the same time that Paul was writing letters (Galatians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Romans) to various Christian communities. Eventually the materials were put together in story form, probably first by Mark, sometime around 70CE, followed by Matthew, John, and Luke/Acts, in that order. Some of the writing occurred as late as the first part to the middle of the second century CE.
When the Seminar members voted, a red vote received 3 points, a pink vote received 2 points, a gray vote received 1 point, and a black vote received 0 points. The colors were given the following definitions: Red = This statement is an accurate representation of what Jesus said or did. Pink = This statement very likely represents what Jesus said or did. Gray = This statement is most likely a formulation of the author, but the content is similar to what Jesus actually said or did. Black = This statement is purely a formulation of the author. A statement or event was given a final color code based on the following percentages: Red = .7501 or more of the scholars agreed that the teaching or event was authentic. Pink = .5001 to .7500 of the scholars agreed that the teaching or event was authentic. Gray = .2501 to .5000 of the scholars agreed that the teaching or event was authentic. Black = .0000 to .2500 of the scholars agreed that the teaching or event was authentic.
THE SCHOLARS USED RULES to determine if Jesus really said or did something; for example:
1. Primary assumption: Jesus was a reasonably well integrated person whose behavior was more or less congruent with his words.
2. Certain categories, some much more than others, are common to the teaching and behavioral materials.
(a) Itinerant
(b) Family ties don't bind
(c) Demon possession and exorcism
(d) Social dev-iance
(e) Association with undesirables
(f) Embracing the unclean
(g) Sabbath
(h) Critics of Jesus
(i) Healing
3. Material that reflects knowledge of events after Jesus' death must be looked at cautiously.
4. Material that appears in independent sources is older than the sources.
5. Material that appears in independent contexts circulated on its own at an earlier time.
6. Similar content that has taken on different forms had a prior life of its own.
7. Oral memory best retains short, provocative, memorable material, like aphorisms and parables.
8. It is more likely that the core or gist of a matter was recalled, rather than precise words.
9. The writers likely put their own words in Jesus' mouth under the following conditions.
(a) Story transitions: for example, "Let's go over to the other side." (Mk 4:35)
(b) Summarizing the message: "The time is up. God's imperial rule is closing in." (Mk 1:15)
(c) Anticipating the story: "The son of Adam is being turned over to his enemies, and they
will end up killing him." (Mk 9:31)
(d) Expressing the writer's view: "Why are you so cowardly? You still don't trust, do you?" (Mk 4:40)
(e) Underscoring a narrative point: "He was unable to perform a single miracle there, except." (Mk 6:6)
(f) Clarifying current practices: "The days will come when the groom is taken away from them, and then they will fast on that day." (Mk 2:20)
(g) Eliciting a confessional point: "What about you, who do you say that I am?" (Mk 8:29)
WHEN THE RULES ARE APPLIED an emerging pattern reinforces itself:
(1) Talks distinctively, distinguishable from common lore.
(2) Teaches against the social and religious grain.
(3) Surprises and shocks by role reversal or frustration of ordinary expectation.
(4) Uses characteristics of exaggeration, humor, and paradox.
(5) Uses concrete and vivid images.
(6) Uses metaphorical language without explicit application.
(7) Seldom initiates dialogue, debate, or healing activity.
(8) Rarely speaks about himself in the first person.
(9) Makes no claim to be the Messiah."
November 3, 2010 at 5:11 pm | Report abuse | capnjammer
I didn't read anything in Reality's initial quotes from Crossan (sorry, Reality, but second post was TL;DR) that seem to be unreasonable. God's sacrifice of Jesus does seem to be child abuse, and I wonder how I could have ever loved such a bloodthirsty god. Just because he is not considered a NT scholar doesn't mean you can't listen to what he has to say... after all, I doubt the pope would have authorized D.L. Moody as a Bible scholar, and just because you aren't John Madden doesn't mean you can't be authoritative about sports.
November 3, 2010 at 5:20 pm | Report abuse | Muneef
God never sacrificed Jesus his messenger to children of Israel to guide them to the truth after so many manipulations to the holy scriptures the children of Israel were lost from the truth God wanted them to have and knowing that the children of israel were not always easy to convince as never they listened to Mosses for that reason God created Jesus in a miraculous way and had him talk as infant but still that was not enough for them and when they feared that he will change the way they want to have their religion and beliefs to remain and it was specially those who knew the truth who had him to be sacrificed but God had not given them the chance to do and they had made the sacrifice but was not of Jesus but they thought they did when it was some one else in his clothes that they had sacrificed. While God had Jesus die latter on and rised him to heavens to await the moment he would come down again...
November 3, 2010 at 7:29 pm | Report abuse | GB
@ Valerie & @ Me
I respect that you choose to believe that the dead can intercede for you. I fail to understand how Mary (or any dead person) can intercede for you. Jesus Christ is the only and all-sufficient mediator between God and man. John 14 V 13 states that: And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Where does Mary fit in this equation? Unless Mary is omniscient and omnipresent, it would be impossible for her to act as mediator between man and Christ. If she could hear any one, how could she hear more than one at a time, and if but one at a time of what avail would she be for the millions saying their Ave Marias at one time in various parts of the world?
@ capnjammer
Like most of the Bible, the Book of Job is allegorical, it cannot always be taken literally. The Book of Job is much more than the story of an ordinary man. If you are serious about understanding the book of Job, I challenge you to check out the following site and take your time to see how Job's suffering is analogous to what Jesus suffered after his arrest, during his trials and crucifixion. http://www.biblesecrets.org/JOB.htm
November 3, 2010 at 7:33 pm | Report abuse | Most High God
Hey GB, if Jesus is the son of the "Most High God" what other gods do you believe in? If you only belive in ONE god, then isent saying God enough? Sounds to me like you are unsure of your own faith, just how many not so high gods do you believe in?
November 3, 2010 at 7:50 pm | Report abuse | capnjammer
@GB: Read it. It's a ridiculous stretch of the imagination. "Riding the wind" really means crucified? Honestly, if you would focus one little bit of logic or reason into your thought process rather than just accepting anything that agrees with you as proof, and completely denying anything that opposes it regardless of veracity, verifiable sources, logical inference, or out-right obviousness, you would have no choice but to change your mind. Don't come around citing a random website you read as a good source of information. I read it in its entirety, and there is nothing about what is said there that would make a lick of sense to anyone not trying tenaciously to cling to the last strands of a broken lie.
November 3, 2010 at 8:24 pm | Report abuse | JG
Many of the new phrases are those that have been used for the past two milennia by the Eastern Orthodox church. i applaud the progress being made towards unity of the Christian world.
November 3, 2010 at 2:24 pm | Report abuse | Reply Valerie
I am a tradional Catholic and attend Latin Mass every Sunday.
These aren't really "new", in fact, they have reverted back to the older wording, more or less.
I am glad to see these changes, for the Mass in general. I firmly believe ALL cahtolic mass should be celebrated in Latin, in the original form, but it is not for me to decide this.
Peace be with you all.
November 3, 2010 at 2:25 pm | Report abuse | Reply Kathleen777
Hooray for the Latin Mass! My family loves it!
November 3, 2010 at 4:02 pm | Report abuse | Christine
Thank you for your insight. It is making me rethink my initial reaction to the changes.
November 3, 2010 at 5:15 pm | Report abuse | Latin Mass
+1
November 3, 2010 at 8:28 pm | Report abuse | Donnewald
Is the original language of the Catholic Mass Latin? Because the Church originated regions surrounding Jerusalem, wouldn't aramaic or another local language most likely have been the spoken language for the early Christians?
November 3, 2010 at 11:04 pm | Report abuse | dalis
@ Donnewald The Early Church conducted its rites in the vernacular languages of the Christianized regions – at Jerusalem they spoke Aramaic (and Chaldean Christians still do), at Corinth and Ephesus they spoke Koine Greek, and in Rome, they spoke Latin. Keep in mind that Latin wasn't always an elite language of law and medicine. Jerome translated the Bible from the original Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek and Old Latin sources into a language of common people on the Italic Peninsula; this is why the Latin Bible is called the Vulgate.
Re: the original Mass, or celebration of the Eucharist...was done in Koine Greek, but of course its true antecedent is the Last Supper. There are many words in Roman Rite mass still retained from Hebrew (Alleluia) and Greek (Kyrie, Anaphora, Eucharist).
Another important point: the Roman Rite or Novus Ordo of the Mass that was adopted after the 2nd Vatican Council is one of 30 rites recognized as valid by the Roman Catholic Church and practiced worldwide by the world's 1.16 billion Catholics. The article is referring to wording changes to one rite out of those 30. The Tridentine (Latin High) mass, for example, is another and it's unchanged.
November 4, 2010 at 3:15 am | Report abuse | chris
If the pope really wanted to fix the church he'd revisit 1st Timothy 4:3 which talks about how false teachers will forbid people to marry. Catholicisms ban on marriage for priests and nuns is a false teaching and has resulted in great misery for clergy and laypeople.
November 3, 2010 at 2:36 pm | Report abuse | Reply kcm
No one is forced to become a priest or a nun. This is a personal choice and they are well aware of the celibacy requirement, as well as poverty and obedience. I've discussed this choice with many priests and nuns and they are in full agreement with the rule and are not miserable. Saint Paul says living an unmarried life and giving all for God is an honorable life.
November 3, 2010 at 3:33 pm | Report abuse | capnjammer
@kcm: obviously they are just hiding their misery, because it often comes out in the form of child abuse when no one is looking. Saint Paul was insane, by the way... he hated women, was probably a eunuch, and declared he wished everyone was unmarried like him, but if you couldn't keep it in your pants then you should get married so you aren't sinning when you boink. So much for the inst-itution of marriage!
November 3, 2010 at 4:38 pm | Report abuse | JG
Chris, the unmarried priest doctrine is a practice of the Roman Church of the West. Orthodox Catholicism has never implemented this "false teaching".
November 3, 2010 at 2:54 pm | Report abuse | Reply Reality
Actually, the Orthodox Church requires all bishops to be celibate and to come only from the ranks of celibate priests.
"Orthodox bishops come only from the ranks of unmarried priests, he faced the choice of all Orthodox seminary graduates: Be ordained unmarried and promise to remain that way throughout your career, or get married and then be ordained. Once ordained, there's no turning back."
November 3, 2010 at 3:05 pm | Report abuse | coastiegirl
... and using that very term, "practice," one would realize that Priests remaining unmarried is someting that can be changed, as the Church sees fit. As for nuns, one of the vows is to remain celibate, in order to dedicate their entire lives to God. It's practical, too– hard to serve as a missionary or live amongst the poor if they have their own husbands and children to also care for...
November 3, 2010 at 3:36 pm | Report abuse | DWTT
Down with the Trinity
November 3, 2010 at 3:05 pm | Report abuse | Reply Muneef
Yes you are right down with trinity because there is only one God that we worship and aware of and been told of by all messengers of God until they have manipulated with the facts relayed in the scriptures and the Roman too has changed it to suite the multi culture they were having into one so combined trinity,paganism and thinking they have sacrificed the Messiah they have made of him God on earth and others as son of God to avoid the mass anger of the crowed believing in him. Therefore your Holy Books will keep on changing verses as done for many years before under the Roman empire and now under the American empire?
November 3, 2010 at 7:38 pm | Report abuse | Bill
Valerie, I second your comments on non-believers. Its amazing how important it is to them to "teach" us that God doesn't exist. I certainly don't spend any time surfing atheist sites to "convert" them. Why are we so important to them? I wonder.
November 3, 2010 at 3:07 pm | Report abuse | Reply XPST
> Why are we so important to them? .
That's easy. Because you may be wrong. Because you may be precisely wrong.
You may be acting exactly in the way that dooms us all to hell. If you close your own mind to alternatives, or, worse yet, impede the ability of others to find the Truth, you may impede your own ability to identify valid moral imperatives, or, worse yet, impede the ability of others.
By Valerie's "Paschal's wager" justification, you should hedge your bet, and oppose prescriptive moral assertions that are not justifiable. You should oppose attempts by others to constrain exploration and diversity, and instead allow for the largest possible exploration space. That is, of course, unless you can justify proposed constraints.
November 3, 2010 at 3:21 pm | Report abuse | Megatron
Bill, the reason it's so important is that believers consantly try and push their faith on us by way of blue laws. For example, having "in God we Trust' on our money. First amendment anyone? Not buying stuff on Sunday?
November 3, 2010 at 3:28 pm | Report abuse | Leave Me Alone
Bill you are blind to how believers push their beliefs on everyone around them with a blind eye. It's offensive and old. I bet if atheists came to your door with literature, tried to talk to your kids without you around to make them disbelieve, and other things you might actually get mad yourself. How about if we told them they were cannibals eating people and drinking their blood at communion. Yuck! Religous people are gross and your parents are gross too. Did you drink blood and eat people. Maybe you're vampires? But atheists aren't telling your kids that (but they are thinking some of it). But believers feel free to tell my kids they're going to burn in hell. If it was happening to you you'd be mad too.
November 3, 2010 at 5:03 pm | Report abuse | JG
Reality: exactly true about Bishops, but not for Priests. Before being Ordained a priest, it is acceptable to be married. Once ordained, clergy are on the path of celibacy and bishop consideration.
November 3, 2010 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse | Reply DBSR
Valerie..." I firmly believe ALL cahtolic mass should be celebrated in Latin, in the original form, but it is not for me to decide this."
Sorry Valerie the original form was Greek not Latin
November 3, 2010 at 3:12 pm | Report abuse | Reply Valerie
I wrote, "form" not language.
: )
The Mass said today is not the same "form" as the old one. I do believe I worded myself correctly.
November 3, 2010 at 3:18 pm | Report abuse | Megatron
It's not the same form because people were bored with Catholicism and in fact were leaving the church. The songs were added to make it more "interactive" in the dark ages. I suppose God's design isn't good enough when the coin isn't flowing in eh?
November 3, 2010 at 3:27 pm | Report abuse | capnjammer
Latin Mass is simply a confusion tactic. Just like the Bible was not allowed to be translated into the common language, and all copies of the Vulgate were burned by the Catholic Church, the Mass being spoken in Latin kept the common people ignorant and under their thumb.
November 3, 2010 at 4:42 pm | Report abuse | Muneef
Well do not know if the original form was in Greek or Latin but sure they were in Aramaic and Hebrew but not sure which one was first. So do you see how many languages it was translated and circulated, only God knows how many changes took place deliberately or accidentally... Noticeably that even the true language of the Messiah the Aramaic was made to die after him...?
November 3, 2010 at 7:49 pm | Report abuse | dalis
@ capnjammer Latin WAS the common language of people in the Roman Empire. Go look at pictures of Pompeii some time: the graffiti on the walls – the most basic, candid form of expression of common people – is in Latin. Only later it became an elite language of the university/professional fields like law and medicine. And the Vulgate was/is the Catholic Bible; don't know what you're talking about when you say they burned it.
To answer the other question, the original language of the mass, or Eucharist, was Koine Greek – another common language. Eucharist is a Greek word.
November 4, 2010 at 3:47 am | Report abuse | capnjammer
@Dalis: Latin was not STILL the popular language in the Middle Ages, or the Renaissance, or just a hundred or so years ago, when it was still the language being spoken. And I'm sorry about my accidental use of the word vulgate, which means it was in the common tongue. The actual Bible that was in the common tongue is the one that was rounded up and burned en masse. Read the life story of John Wycliffe or William Tyndale. These men suffered and died for trying to translate the Bible into the language of the common man.
November 4, 2010 at 4:09 am | Report abuse | @XPST
A lot of assertions in that first paragraph...
November 3, 2010 at 3:27 pm | Report abuse | Reply @@XPST
Seriously??? I hit reply...
November 3, 2010 at 3:28 pm | Report abuse | Reply Iqbal khan
Here we go again changes...
November 3, 2010 at 3:35 pm | Report abuse | Reply Muneef
@Iqbal Khan. Thank you for this important peace of information which I never knew before as I always thought that the Holy Books they have are the words of God and which it turned to be not?? Where is the True Angeel of Al Messiah which were told about in the Quran given to Jesus? It is the only truth that came before Quran? So as it seems not only tried to sacrifice Jesus and caused the death of the Aramaic language but as well they made the Holy Angeel to disappear?!
November 3, 2010 at 8:07 pm | Report abuse | Scargosun
You have GOT to be kidding me. I just read all the changes on the website referenced above. I REALLY don't want to know the amount of money WASTED on this. Half of the changes don't even make sense. It's not as if there was some more accurate translation done to get to this point. They clearly decided to use some new words to jazz up the prayers people (including me who is not a member of the Catholic Church anymore) know by heart. I am sorry but if that is what the church thinks is needed to keep parishioners, doesn't it seem like there is probably a larger issue that needs to be addressed?
November 3, 2010 at 3:40 pm | Report abuse | Reply capnjammer
Maybe that's the point. Just like when they couldn't restrain it any more the church had to start allowing the vulgate to be read without burning every copy they could find, now they find themselves in peril and are using diversionary tactics to get people's attention off the fact that they may not really be the mouthpiece of god...
November 3, 2010 at 4:44 pm | Report abuse | Jim
What Valerie is saying is why as a non believer are you reading articles and posting messages about verbiage used in a ceremony you don't believe in. For instance, I don't like video games. Why would I go on a video game message board and tell people they are stupid for liking video games? This doesn't pertain to you, so don't worry about it.
November 3, 2010 at 3:42 pm | Report abuse | Reply Doc Vestibule
@Jim It's a slow day on the Belief Blog and the non-believers are bored. Riling up Catholics by pointing out the absurdities of cannibalistic rites, hierarchichal haberdashery, ancient inquisitions, biblical inconsistencies, rampant pedophilia etc. is almost as easy as pestering young earth creationists by showing them fossils. It's always entertaining to poke at dogmatic thinkers.
November 3, 2010 at 3:57 pm | Report abuse | capnjammer
@Jim, I'm sorry, but it does pertain to us. As long as you believe in your imaginary friend, my g-ay friends aren't allowed to marry, my cousin who almost died while giving birth to an encephalitic child whom the doctors knew would be stillborn anyway can't get abortions that would facilitate their survival and good health without risking a back-alley version of the surgery, stem cell research which could help all manner of illnesses and even facilitate the regrowth of lost limbs (which is something God has never done) will remain illegal, religious people will continue to break the first amendment and cause laws to be passed which give deference to their beliefs and no one else's, children will continued to be sequestered away from reality and not given a chance to make important choices that will effect the remainder of their lives, and the world will continue to be segregated by dogmatism. That's why I stand up and make my voice heard. I know you are most likely too indoctrinated to change your mind, but if I can reach someone who is struggling with their faith or who hasn't been fully indoctrinated yet, and prove that logic and reason win out over blind faith every time, I know I can make a difference.
November 3, 2010 at 4:53 pm | Report abuse | Matt
A good thing to do is ignore the comment sections. People who argue on the internet obviously have nothing better to do.
November 3, 2010 at 5:02 pm | Report abuse | Evan
Matt, that is so completely true. Amen!
November 3, 2010 at 5:08 pm | Report abuse | brad
@Doc Vestibule When people level the charge of "cannibalism" against us Catholics, they are acting according to script (Jn 6): "How can this man give us his body to eat and his blood to drink?!" Jesus didn't pander. He responded "Does this offend you? What then if you see me return to the place from which I came?" (paraphrase)
November 3, 2010 at 5:15 pm | Report abuse | Margaret Mary
"Those translations were prompted by the Second Vatican Council of 1962, which did away with the Latin Mass and decreed that Masses should be celebrated in each parish's local language."
This is absolutely wrong. Vatican II did not do away with the Latin Mass, With the permission of the local Bishop, a parish could hold a Mass in Latin (either in the old style or a Novis Ordo Mass). This is one of the ways in which some folks (in the opinion of many) went too far with Vatican II reforms. While the goal was to create an experience for Modern Roman Catholics, the intention was never to throw out the old.
November 3, 2010 at 3:48 pm | Report abuse | Reply Kathleen777
We Catholic hippies may have gone a bit over board with change after VCII, but we are slowly dying off and the Church in its glory continues!
November 3, 2010 at 4:12 pm | Report abuse | Kathleen777
For the non believers: a good history book to see how Catholic your day-to-day life is
Triumph: The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church, H. W. Crocker III
November 3, 2010 at 4:07 pm | Report abuse | Reply Valerie
Kathleen- I like that......hahaha....yes!
November 3, 2010 at 4:14 pm | Report abuse | capnjammer
Of course. That's because the Roman Empire knew it was dying out and a-ssimilated Judaism into its pagan roots so it would have an arm to continue growing throughout history, just as it had done with the Greeks, the Babylonians, and the Medo-Persians, and like it tried to do with the Ottomans during the Crusades. To the victors of history go the rights to write its history books. You follow the remains of the pagan Roman Empire.
The intellectual minds of the Renaissance knew this. That's why whenever you see a picture of St. Peter, the first pope, he is carrying a crooked staff and holding two fingers up to the sky exactly like in classical depictions of Jupiter.
November 3, 2010 at 4:58 pm | Report abuse | SHRIKE
"Feel the power of the dark side"
November 3, 2010 at 4:09 pm | Report abuse | Reply K
Hmm. Just based on the sampling in the article, the new translations seem much more awkward than the old ones. Words repeated unneccessarily, odd turns of phrase, etc.
Not sure I really see any benefit from either the standpoint of being more precise in the meaning or of being more comfortable/understandable for parishoners.
There may be many areas where the church could strive harder to reform and revise, but as the culmination of a 7 year project this one seems kind of off-putting and unnecessary.
November 3, 2010 at 4:22 pm | Report abuse | Reply Evan
Hey, at least it kept them busy, you really don't want a bunch of priests with too much time on their hands hanging around, now do you? Busy minds, pure thoughts….
November 3, 2010 at 4:47 pm | Report abuse | cj
To "what we pray is what we believe" I suggest adding "what we pray is what we do".
November 3, 2010 at 4:44 pm | Report abuse | Reply Lulu
That would've been a good addition ...
November 3, 2010 at 4:49 pm | Report abuse | Lulu
It would be nice if – just once – a media story regarding religion didn't dissolve into a war between non-believers and the faith-filled. Many here who claim to be atheist are merely preaching the gospel of logic & science just as passionately as those who preach the teachings of Christ, Buddha or Allah. If they truly were humanists, they would believe in tolerance for all belief systems, and would disavow intolerance for those who envision the world as so much more than their senses bring to them.
As for the content of this story, I don't think anyone beyond active Catholics have any legitimate reason to comment on it. Changing the words we say at Mass won't affect those who don't attend.
November 3, 2010 at 4:46 pm | Report abuse | Reply Evan
Hmmm, for instance... keeping gay human-beings from marrying or legally having partnerships shouldn't affect those who don't attend?
November 3, 2010 at 4:50 pm | Report abuse | Sum Dude
@Lulu
If you feel that way, then why are you even here? Why don't you go to your EWTN site or some other Christian site and enjoy the company you say you prefer???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
November 3, 2010 at 5:24 pm | Report abuse | Lulu
@ Evan: I think everyone should be allowed to marry whom they wish so long as they are legal & consenting adults. Those who don't think so, should not attend the weddings. And I think religion should stay out of politics & law.
@ Sum Dude : Why do you think I prefer the company of religious-minded people ? I said no such thing. Do you have no better argument than to tell me to go away ?
November 3, 2010 at 6:59 pm | Report abuse | Sum Dude
@Lulu
Oops! Sorry. I think I got you mixed up with Jim. My eyes started scrolling on their own separately from the wheel on my mouse. Sorry!
November 4, 2010 at 12:36 am | Report abuse | Peace2All
@Sum Dude
Hey Dude..! What's happenin'...?
Peace...
November 4, 2010 at 12:58 am | Report abuse | billhiller
good job valarie
November 3, 2010 at 4:55 pm | Report abuse | Reply Brian
Why is it that non believers are so afraid to believe in something bigger than what they are? To admit God in one's life is not an easy thing. To accept the Holy Spirit is a frightening thing to receive in your heart if you do not believe.
November 3, 2010 at 4:55 pm | Report abuse | Reply capnjammer
@Brian: I'm not afraid to believe in something bigger than I am. I've been a Catholic. I've been a Protestant. I've been a pastor, an evangelist, and a missionary. Letting go of God was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Do you think I wanted to lose the only father figure I ever had? Do you think I wanted to lose the rights to pray directly to the creator of the universe and have him listen to my every word? Do you think I wanted to believe there was nothing after I died, and that I would never see my dead loved ones again? Do you think I wanted to go from having hundreds, at times even thousands of followers, to writing a blog that gets 30 views a day? Do you think I wanted all my Christian family and friends to forsake me? I did not, but I could do nothing else but stop believing.
Logic and reason won out. There is no God, and if there is, there is no human being on this planet that can claim to speak for him or to know his mind. If there was a God, the Bible and the Quran are obviously not his books. There is no reason to believe, and all belief does is cause dogmatic separation of people who could otherwise be friends and coworkers towards a better tomorrow.
November 3, 2010 at 5:05 pm | Report abuse | brad
@capnjammer: I for one understand the loss one feels when faced with God's absence. The old mystics called this "spiritual desolation". I also appreciate the risk you run by stating your inner feelings on this site. There are too many others who will kick you when you're down.
November 3, 2010 at 5:49 pm | Report abuse | Sum Dude
@capnjammer
A great post, bro! Ignore these nastier trolls. They love to twist words and provoke using lies – in a decidedly sadistic manner, I must say. They / he has been doing this on here a long time. They / he cannot speak straight, see straight, or hear straight, and they / he needs to go straight to somewhere that doesn't exist and makes no sense.
November 4, 2010 at 5:10 am | Report abuse | brad
Gosh. No wonder atheists are so angry. They're exhausted from trying to crowd the infinite through their brains. As Evelyn Underhill observed, "Absolutes are known only to absolute mind; our measurements, however careful and intricate, can never tally with the measurements of God."
November 3, 2010 at 4:59 pm | Report abuse | Reply capnjammer
@Brad: I beg to differ. Have you ever contemplated the universe? It is so much more than you can imagine, on both ends of the spectrum (microcosmic and macrocosmic). God was simply an excuse, a fill-in when we could not begin to understand. We are only just now stepping out into the shores of the vast ocean of discovery, and we no longer need the excuse "God did it." We want to find out what really did it, and we can no longer afford to let God get in the way of that. If the person who discovered penicillin had looked into his test tube one day and declared "It's a miracle!" instead of searching for the truth, millions would be dead right now. We must forsake God and doctrine. The world is not so black-and-white as it once was thought to be. We must investigate the grey areas, or we will die out as a species. The segregation, bigotry, hatred, division, and the stymieing of scientific, technological, medicinal, and societal advancement due to religion must be stopped.
November 3, 2010 at 5:12 pm | Report abuse | brad
@capnjammer Evelyn Underhill was explaining what we face when dealing with the absolute. The approach you offer is limited to the temperal, finite, and what we can detect and process with our mere five senses. I agree with what you say as far as it goes.
November 3, 2010 at 5:25 pm | Report abuse | capnjammer
Then would you please explain, if all of this is really so beyond our five senses and ability to process, the organizations that claim to be the mouthpieces of God. I appreciate your own personal belief and respect your right to it. I find my "spirituality" in my contemplation on the vast amazingness of the universe. My Scripture is the beautifully lyrical way that Carl Sagan explains it, for example:
"The Cosmos is full beyond measure of elegant truths Of exquisite interrelationships Of the awesome machinery of nature
I believe our future depends powerfully On how well we understand this cosmos In which we float like a mote of dust In the morning sky."
I also, whereas I once used to weep whenever I heard the old hymn "It Is Well With My Soul" now weep as I hear John Lennon envision a world where everyone is brother and sister and the last walls of government, religion, and greed have been brought down from between us.
But why is my accepted method of spirituality not good enough? Why should anyone claim to know the mind of God any more than me? Why is my "religion," which is peace and harmony for all people, not good enough for those who claim to speak for God, who claim my beliefs are only lies told to distract from the truth of their God, who divide the world through the theology of creed, who cannot prove themselves to be any more worthy, if at all worthy, of the revelation of God's mind than I? And why should I not fight against that which is clearly evil, clearly divisive, clearly harmful, not only to myself and my rights and beliefs but to the rights and beliefs of all of humanity? Why should I sit by and watch as children are sequestered away, never given the right to make a choice or learn of those things which I find so incomparably amazing? Why should I stand down and watch while those who mean to a-ssimilate my "faith" are not asked to do the same?
November 3, 2010 at 5:57 pm | Report abuse | treejammer
As for me and my house, we welcome. the new translation.
November 3, 2010 at 5:18 pm | Report abuse | Reply Amanda
God and the Devil were walking along a road one day and saw something shiny off to the side. God picked up the shiny object and said, "Oh look, it's Truth." The Devil said, "Give that to me. I'll organize it." And so, Truth became Religion.
November 3, 2010 at 5:31 pm | Report abuse | Reply Sum Dude
Did "Reality" post something at the top and everyone hit the "report abuse" button to make it go away and glitch up this thread??
November 3, 2010 at 5:44 pm | Report abuse | Reply Reality
Apparently:
A copy of the original-
The Apostles' Creed Updated:
I might believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven, human-created state of bliss called heaven.
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple, preacher-man who was concieved by a Jewish carpenter named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish girl named Mary.
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of Jerusalem.
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by many local semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and ascension story was promulgated to compete with the Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
Amen
November 3, 2010 at 10:17 pm | Report abuse | Sum Dude
Yet this freedom of speech thing is okay....as long as no one "reports abuse" for no good reason...! Then the thread goes "spang". *sigh*
November 3, 2010 at 5:47 pm | Report abuse | Reply Sum Dude
twa is on the list?
November 3, 2010 at 5:49 pm | Report abuse | Donnewald
Being a Catholic, I find the butchery to The Apostles Creed offensive. But I won't report it as such because all interacting on this thread need to see it and make their own decision.
November 3, 2010 at 11:26 pm | Report abuse | Sum Dude
@Donnewald
As this is the first time I have seen this statement (under Reality's label or anywhere for that matter), the first thing that popped into my head after reading your posted response was-an impression that you are having some kind of hang-up over the name "The Apostles Creed."
I say this because I can't remember if I've ever read that Catholic(I'm assuming) statement. I am not going to look it up until I am done posting this. This is just my first impression of why people hit the button on this...when I have seen (and written some of it myself) much "worse" in this blog. The only difference between this post of "Reality's" and so many others is that here seems to be that someone hit the button enough times – not hard to do for one person with a little imagination (an obvious drawback to having a button like that)...so then the next clue would be that of the tltle to which you refer.
Consider if these words had not been given that particular tltle...would you have been as upset? Is it because you are not used to seeing such things spelled out in a blog or something?
Your Catholic Church is guilty of some of the most heinous crimes against humanity done over 2000 years. You know your Church's history, right?
So why would any Catholic feel justified in pushing that button for that purpose? Pettiness mixed with revulsion of a religious nature? Shock? Outrage? Being monstrously offended?
You know that's how -I-, an agnostic tend to look at the Catholic Church, right? For all the crimes that have been done, ARE STILL BEING DONE, and are very likely to continue to be done, the Catholic Church has very little cause to protest anything like a call for justice or a denouncing of the other policies and crimes of the CC. I'm not stopping you from being offended, am I? Oh, well. I thought it might be worth a try. Thanks for supporting everyone's right to hit the post button, at least. If people can't express anything better than hitting a button, then perhaps they should play some videogames instead. They can be rad fun, man. Consider the soft-ware market (the letters ft-w get "moderated", sorry)....is there some sort of Catholic videogame you could play or suggest to the right videogame developers? Then you could be have some truly blessed fun instead of seeing our "offensive" posts....??
November 4, 2010 at 1:25 am | Report abuse | Sum Dude
@Donnewald
Having looked up "The Apostles Creed" and looked at the different "types" I find that I have heard this somewhere before. I used to drink that gra-pe juice, yeah. I remember hearing that at least once now.
Now I came back to compare the two "versions" and discover something amazingly obvious – what "Reality" posted is just a sort of statement of how Christianity is seen by some other people or maybe a statement of "belief" that views many of the usual tenets of Christian belief in a different light.
Some Jews, Muslims, (and probably others) would probably have this opinion of what is contained in the "official" creed statements. Is this a bad thing? Can it be refuted using good evidence beyond second and third-hand accounts? If not, then maybe you don't really have good cause to be offended.
November 4, 2010 at 1:56 am | Report abuse | Believer
to capnjammer- I will be praying for you specifically that you will turn back to Jesus Christ! The enemy(the devil) wants to do nothing but steal, kill and destroy...he knows his time is short....and he is going to try and take any soul that he can with him...but what is so awesome is that Jesus is Lord and He is coming soon and everything crazy that is going on in the world today is spoken of in the Bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are in my prayers and everyone on here!! I pray that you will turn back to Jesus...He is the ONLY way! God bless YOU all !
November 3, 2010 at 5:54 pm | Report abuse | Reply capnjammer
I'm sorry, believer... well, I'm not really sorry in general, I just don't want to seem ungrateful for your time and effort. But I know for one hundred percent absolute fact that there is no such Jesus. It simply is not possible. I did not choose to leave Christianity based on emotion or anger or being dissuaded from my particular denomination. I simply can not believe something that I know beyond the shadow of a doubt to be absolutely false. I cannot argue that there is no God (only that there is no valid proof of the existence of any God), but Jesus is a different story. If Jesus ever really did exist, which I doubt, he was not the Messiah, and he especially was not the son of God.
I could just as easily say that I'll be praying for you that you forsake the plagiarized religion of Christianity and follow the true religion it was based on, Zoroastrianism, and that you accept the original Jesus, Mithras, son of the god Mithra, and stop following the false god Jesus who is just a supplanter and usurper.
November 3, 2010 at 6:16 pm | Report abuse | Muneef
Well for us as Muslims Jesus the Messiah did exist but was not sacrificed as told and died latter to be rised to heavens and come down again on time known to God. We know God exist from seeing the creation and that there is reason for every creature and creation and nothing came or created for nothing? We knew that God was not an idol from messengers of God who came one after another to warn and guide us to the truth. The only thing I agree with you that yes Jesus was a creation of God and his creation was as miracles as Adam but not as a Son of God or to be worshiped rather than God the creator ? We were told that there were Christion branch that did not consider Jesus as a son of God but heard they were exter,minated long ago and just wonder if any left existing..?
November 3, 2010 at 8:40 pm | Report abuse | capnjammer
I think you mean the Gnostics, and yes, my best friend is a Gnostic. Everything else, well, I'm sorry (again, I keep saying this but I'm not really) but seeing the world around you isn't valid evidence of God. That's like saying finding a poo in the forest validates the idea that it was pooed by a leprechaun. The universe began to exist, yes, but just because it did in no way infers that a God did it. In fact, the God hypothesis adds nothing to the search for the truth of our origins. God is not necessary for the universe to make sense, and really only makes it that much more confused. When the first man with a brain big enough to do so stepped out of his hut and said "I don't understand how the world started, but I made that hut, so the world must have been made by someone like me, only bigger," you had the start of theology. Then, when he told someone "I just figured out that God created the world, and he wants you to give me that pretty rock or he'll allow me to kill you" the first religion was formed. All religions after that are just copies of that first man's ignorance and greed.
November 3, 2010 at 9:10 pm | Report abuse | Muneef
Guess if that what you are convinced with then let it be because I am not here to convince you but marking our teachings although we all have minds and hearts that tells us the truth of things. As suppose I tell you a lie you will find your self unconvinced because you felt some thing telling you otherwise and that's how we can tell truth from lies.. God in the Quran told us that our minds and hearts are responsible of differentiating between the truth and the false but told us as well that some people have locks on their hearts or blinded hearts and couldn't tell the difference because their faith in God was weak or are more in to clone or traditions that they do not want to give up..
November 3, 2010 at 10:06 pm | Report abuse | Amanda
Yeah, you need a thick skin when it comes to religion, politics, sports, and Siberia.
November 3, 2010 at 6:02 pm | Report abuse | Reply Cecil Nixxon
True, Deacons can celebrate the Eucharist and preside over some aspects of mass.
But remember: The Clergy does more than Lay People!
November 3, 2010 at 6:04 pm | Report abuse | Reply Daithi mac curtáin
The changes seem strange lord Im not worthy to receive you under my roof ? I always thought to receive you was to receive you in the mouth as in the blessed host , I think this is really tinkering with something just for the sake of it or it does not translate well from italian to english . But if the holy father and the bishops feel this is for the better then so be it and God bless my beloved church .
November 3, 2010 at 8:04 pm | Report abuse | Reply Liz
I just went to the Bisthops' website. There is nothing new about this 'new' language. This is the language of the missal from the middle 1960's. I remember saying these prayers as a kid; they're a direct translation from the Latin! Sounds like the Pope is moving things backward some more....
November 3, 2010 at 8:22 pm | Report abuse | Reply dalis
These changes bring the Roman Rite closer to the Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox Churches and the Anglican Use of High Anglican and Anglo-Catholic Churches. My hunch is that they're not just trying to get the mass closer to a direct translation of the Latin (Tridentine) mass, but they're also preparing for the eventual reconciliation of the East-West Schism.
November 4, 2010 at 4:02 am | Report abuse | truehuman
Our father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil Amen
November 3, 2010 at 9:19 pm | Report abuse | Reply Nunyer Beezwax
Yawn. Just proving what a robotic church chump you are.
November 4, 2010 at 7:13 am | Report abuse | capnjammer
@Brad: of eve-ryth-ing I said, your only arg-ument is that what I said is true, it just hap-pened a little later? I still as-sert that the vi-li-fi-ca-tion and murder of certain "Chris-tians" was part of a Roman scheme to cod-ify their beliefs into the new state religion and do away with the nay-sayers, and again stress that beli-eving something so firmly that you are willing to die for those beliefs does not, in fact, lend any cre-dence to those beliefs. Ja-pan-ese ka-mik-aze pi-lots crashed their planes into enemy shi-ps because they believed Hi-ro-hi-to was God.
Sorry about all the dashes but I couldn't for the life of me figure out what was causing my problem.
November 3, 2010 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse | Reply Sum Dude
Ja-panese
November 4, 2010 at 2:16 am | Report abuse | Sum Dude
(newest addition = j-ap-- thx capnjammer!)
bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to post that wonderful argument: Many, if not most are buried within other words, but I am not shooting for the perfect list, so use your imagination. You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters to modify the "offending" letter combinations. ----------– s-ex....Ess-ex, s-exual, etc. c-um.........as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, etc. sp-ic........as in disp-icable (look out Sylvester the cat!) ho-mo...whether ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, etc. t-it.........const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, etc. an-al......ban-al sh-it fu-ck...isn't this a great word? yet they filter it. who-re tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, (an unexpected one) pr-ick....perhaps cupr-ic would also fall under the ban. sl-ut va-g....as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc. hor-ny... ar-se....yet "ass" is not filtered! nip-ple...those baby bottles are obscene aren't they? c-ock cu-nt...as in Scu-ntthorpe, a city in the UK, famous for having problems with filters...! co-on...as in rac-oon, coc-oon ra-pe...as in gr-ape, etc. jacka-ss...but ass is fine lol p-is.....as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, etc.
ft-w....as in soft-ware...!!!!!omg! j-ap...as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc...this is one I had forgotten,as I only encountered it elsewhere...
There are more, some of them considered "racist", so do not assume that this is complete. ----- okay words that you might have thought were bad...lol penis ass crap damn anal anus sphincter testicles testes pubic boob -– I have found the best way to re-submit is to hit the back button, delete the cookies, look for and fix the problem and then hit "post". There are also "technical" ways past the filter, like "html ent-ities" (google it without the dash), but the filter is the problem, not a solution. Filters should not be needed in a free opinion blog.
November 4, 2010 at 2:17 am | Report abuse | Iqbal khan November 3, 2010 at 10:06 pm | Report abuse | Reply Reality
From Sir Salman Rushdie's book "Satanic Verses", p. 376, paperback issue – for those 1.5 billion Muslims to read as they are forbidden to purchase or read said book:
One of the passages that prompted the crazy Ayatollah Khomeini to issue a fatwa against Sir Rushdie:
"The faithful lived by lawlessness, but in those years Mahound – or should one say the Archangel Gibreel? – should one say Al-Lah? – became obsessed by law.
Amid the palm-trees of the oasis Gibreel appeared to the Prophet and found himself spouting rules, rules, rules, until the faithful could scarcely bear the prospect of any more revelation, Salman said, rules about every damn thing, if a man farts let him turn his face to the wind, a rule about which hand to use for the purpose of cleaning one's behind.
It was as if no aspect of human existence was to be left unregulated, free. The revelation – the recitation- told the faithful how much to eat, how deeply they should sleep, and which se-xual positions had received divine sanction, so that they leamed that so-domy and the missionary position were approved of by the archangel, whereas the forbidden postures included all those in which the female was on top.
Gibreel further listed the permitted and forbidden subjects of conversation, and earmarked the parts of the body which could not be scratched no matter how unbearably they might itch.
He vetoed the con-sumption of prawns, those bizarre other-worldly creatures which no member of the faithful had ever seen, and required animals to be killed slowly, by bleeding, so that by experiencing their deaths to the full they might arrive at an understanding of the meaning of their lives, for it is only at the moment of death that living creatures understand that life has been real, and not a sort of dream.-
And Gibreel the archangel specified the manner in which a man should be buried, and how his property should be divided, so that Salman the Persian got to wondering what manner of God this was that sounded so much like a businessman.
This was when he had the idea that destroyed his faith, because he recalled that of course Mahound himself had been a businessman, and a damned successful one at that, a person to whom organization and rules came naturally, so how excessively convenient it was that he should have come up with such a very businesslike archangel, who handed down the management decisions of this highly corporate, if noncorporeal, God."
November 3, 2010 at 10:23 pm | Report abuse | Iqbal khan
Check what this professor is saying
November 3, 2010 at 10:21 pm | Report abuse | Reply Reality
Amazing facts about the koran:
"Islam’s Koran and Wa-r Ve-rses
Readers will have heard apo-logists for the Koran acknowledge that, yes, there are w-ar ve-rses in the Koran, but only a few. Every Muslim ap-ologist hastens to add that the Koran’s sp-ar-se number of war ve-rses relate to just a few unavoidable military crises in Islam’s early history. They as-sure us that no war ve-rse was ever intended to serve as a model inc-iting Muslims in general to hostil-ity against res-istant non-Muslims in all ages.
What is the truth of the matter?
In fact, there are at least 109 ident-ifiable war verses in the Koran. One out of every 55 verses in the Koran is a war verse. War ve-rses are scattered throughout Mohammed’s chapters like bl-ood sp-latter at a crime scene. I will demo-nstrate from Mohammed’s own words that he leaves readers in no doubt—he obviously intended his war verses to aro-use Muslims to compel the conversion of non-Muslims to Islam, even by violence if necessary. Failing their con-version, Mohammed ordained that non-Muslims be killed, enslaved or—provided Islam is in full political control—heavily taxed for the adva-ncement of Islam in per-pe-tu-ity!
And yet I hes-itate. Why? If I simply cite war verse after war verse after war verse from among 109 samples, many readers, seeing just the words on paper, may think it was just that—ven-geful-sounding words that got written on paper but remain inn-ocent because they did not lead to actual deeds of vio-lence. Even Hitler’s Mein Kampf—minus World War II—could be just-ified by some as Ad-olph’s way of venting fru-stration. Thus I am obl-igated to quote Mohammed’s war verses in the con-text of the actual vio-lence they either described or inspired. Violent words that trigger vio-lent deeds cannot be dis-missed as inn-ocent ra-mblings.
The tragic events I describe in the next few pages are all confirmed from Muslim sources. Readers may find it odd that per-pe-trators of such lo-athsome crimes would confess them so aud-aciously. In fact, the vio-lence that Mohammed inspired in his followers was so per-va-sive that both he and they seem to have lost all sense of how vil-lainous the recounting of their deeds would appear to non-Muslim readers in ages to come. As the following chapter shows, they virt-ually brag about mur-dering inn-ocents."
November 3, 2010 at 10:36 pm | Report abuse | Reply billp
"It is necessary for salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." – Pope Boniface VII
Those words say everything you need to know about the Catholic Church and its goals.
November 3, 2010 at 10:40 pm | Report abuse | Reply streetcar01
This is earth shattering.
November 3, 2010 at 10:46 pm | Report abuse | Reply anotherview
In the end, we all meet our Maker!!!
November 3, 2010 at 11:53 pm | Report abuse | Reply Nunyer Beezwax
Our parents?
November 4, 2010 at 7:11 am | Report abuse | jjs
This disappoints me as a Catholic because it ruins the joke my friend and I have when we quote Star Wars. One of us says, "May the Force be with you." To which the response is, "And also with you."
November 3, 2010 at 11:58 pm | Report abuse | Reply Les
They can re-write all they want (and some of it now makes no sense, like the Ecce Agnus Dei response) but it doesn’t make any of it any more true than it was before the changes, which is not true at all. It is a nice way to organize like minded people and give them something greater than themselves to look to when life isn’t easy, but the truth is there is no son-of-god Jesus, no god, no life after death. I am a believer in reality, and the goodness of human beings, and the idea that life is a short-term existance in which we should all be trying to do good for the world and be as happy as we decide we want to be.
November 4, 2010 at 12:55 am | Report abuse | Reply Sum Dude
@Les
This may sound strange, as I am an agnostic, but you make assertions without proof and somehow believe that happiness is a "choice" that people aren't making often enough.
And life doesn't have to be a "short-term existence", either. You state things as if you know them to be true like many religious folk, but you cannot prove them, also like religious folk.
Human existence has uncertainty, discontent, and physical needs...our human bodies are erratic, unreliable, uncontrollable, very vulnerable to just about everything, and haphazardly evolved....and our brains are commensurately badly evolved as well.
Which might explain your post. lol (just had to put that in, sorry.)
People with clinical depression cannot "choose" to be happy. They did not make a "choice" to suffer depression. The number of people who believe that happiness is just a "choice" one has to "make firmly" or something, is enormous. You might be right about there being no gods around, but you couldn't possibly know for sure, as you cannot prove it...can you.... Just arguin'
November 4, 2010 at 4:01 am | Report abuse | Rachael
Well that's going to be confusing...... I think the people are going to have a hard time changing what they've recited every week for 30+ years (or in my case, my entire life)!
November 4, 2010 at 2:26 am | Report abuse | Reply dalis
Well, it will give you something to do.
November 4, 2010 at 4:05 am | Report abuse | Nunyer Beezwax
Well your other choice is to realize the ridiculousness of the entire situation, quit shoring up a monstrosity, and spend your time and money making the world a better place every Sunday, rather than standup/sitdown/standup/chant/sitdown/put money in the bowl/practice symbolic cannibalism/standup/kneel/sitdown...
November 4, 2010 at 7:09 am | Report abuse | JCizzle
The only church I believe in is Church's Chicken.
November 4, 2010 at 4:15 am | Report abuse | Reply Nunyer Beezwax
You guys sure do waste a lot of time typing crap on here. Religion is a waste of time and an embarrassment to those of us humans who have chosen to use our brains.
November 4, 2010 at 7:05 am | Report abuse | Reply Answerman28
What a complete pile of horse dung.. It staggers the imagination to think that anyone would dedicate thier lives to insisting there is a sky fairy in 2010.. I dare say there is no hope for these people.
November 4, 2010 at 8:12 am | Report abuse | Reply Kevin
Changes appear to be designed to de-emphasize the belief that the wafer is literally transformed into Christ's body, emphasizing the figurative rather than the literal.
November 4, 2010 at 8:53 am | Report abuse | Reply Valerie
Wow.
I am wondering why it is exactly that non-believers go so far out of their way to "sway" those of us that DO believe. Please explain. How exactly does it benefit you? Does it make you feel superior to us? Smarter than us??? What do you gain from it?
Just hope for your sake you are right, because if "I" am wrong, I end up just dead, but if YOU are wrong, you're SCREWED!
Have a great day!
November 3, 2010 at 2:35 pm | Report abuse | Reply XPST
> I am wondering why it is exactly that non-believers go so far out of their way to "sway" those of us that DO believe.
That's easy. Because you may be wrong. Because you may be precisely wrong.
You may be acting exactly in the way that dooms us all to hell. If you close you own mind to alternatives, or, worse yet, impede the ability of others to find the Truth, you may impede your own ability to identify valid moral imperatives, or, worse yet, impede the ability of others.
By your own "Paschal's wager" justification, you should hedge your bet, and oppose prescriptive moral assertions that are not justifiable. You should oppose attempts by others to constrain exploration and diversity, and instead allow for the largest possible exploration space. That is, of course, unless you can justify proposed constraints.
November 3, 2010 at 3:16 pm | Report abuse | Reply Compassion
Valerie – it looks to me like what you just spewed at reality is anger and judgment. Forgive me if I am incorrect, but being raised Catholic I thought we were taught that judgment is reserved for God only. A God who teaches us compassion, understanding and above all else, LOVE for our fellow man.
November 3, 2010 at 3:17 pm | Report abuse | Reply Valerie
XPST- but if there isn't a God, how come you are worried I might be dooming "us all to hell"?
Explain.
November 3, 2010 at 3:22 pm | Report abuse | Reply Valerie
Compassion- I asked questions.....please re-read my post. I asked questions. I wonder why you are attacking what I wrote. Don't you wonder the same thing?
All this ENERGY it takes for non-believers to rake us over the coals....so what if they don't agree with what we believe? Why do they CARE so much? I certainly don't waste my time tracking them down to convert them......so why do they do this?
Makes you wonder..... : )
November 3, 2010 at 3:25 pm | Report abuse | Reply JB Cal
Valerie, your response to Reality's Apostles' Creed update was spot on.
November 3, 2010 at 3:27 pm | Report abuse | Reply XPST
> PST- but if there isn't a God, how come you are worried I might be dooming "us all to hell"?
God == valid moral imperatives. I cannot prove that valid moral imperative do not exist.
However, I do not yet know of any attributes of God other than that one attribute.
'Hell' is the consequence of violating valid moral imperatives.
November 3, 2010 at 3:28 pm | Report abuse | Reply capnjammer
Thank you, XPST. Let me add to your argument in a way that might be a bit more coherent for a layperson:
If you are wrong about God, for example, if he is really Allah, or the Gnostic god, or Zeus, or if he wants people to use the reason and intellect he has blessed them with and punishes blind faith, that is how you are dam-ning us all to H-ell. You have to remember that yours is not the only religion, yours is not the only god, and even among members of your own faith there are variant beliefs on how to get to heaven.
On top of that, I'm sure you vote for people based on your religious preferences rather than your belief that they would actually do a good job in office. George W. Bush, for example, prayed and read his Bible all night before the election, and thus won the popular vote for the religious crowd, but now we are engaged in what seems to be an endless war and the economy is worse now than it has been since the Great Depression. On top of that, we don't want people to vote against g-ay marriage, abortion, stem cell research, separation of church and state laws, etc. simply because they are predisposed to an unverifiable belief. Also, religion causes division and segregation. Martin Luther King, jr. said "Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in America." I don't believe we should have such divisions, but until religion eases its hold on the hearts and minds of people we are never going to see "Human Pride Day."
That's why we fight so hard against religion. I believe it is in the best interest of the human race.
November 3, 2010 at 4:19 pm | Report abuse | Reply PC
Btw–who asked you, and why should we believe your opinion? You've certainly proved to be no smarter or better educated than many others on this site.
November 3, 2010 at 4:28 pm | Report abuse | Reply jojo
Seriously!!!!!!! Of all the issues going on the Catholic church the Vatican an American Bishops want to waste time and revert back to Pre Vatican 2 Bull Crap. I swear, good god you dumb old men.
November 3, 2010 at 4:32 pm | Report abuse | Reply brad
"Said stories were so popular that they grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity". Reality, I expect that people of the day hesitated to abandon the status quo (Judaism, Paganism) in favor of a "cult" in which they would be fed to wild beasts or scorched on a grid iron. Have you ever considered that in spite of human nature, something truly powerful was at work?
November 3, 2010 at 5:08 pm | Report abuse | Reply Leave Me Alone
No, you're gambling too. You see gos might only like Jews or Muslims. Who knows who'll be let in the door? Might not be you so better believe'm all to be safe.
November 3, 2010 at 5:07 pm | Report abuse | Reply Sum Dude
@Valerie
Surely we could say the same to you? Yet your being "screwed" is happening NOW, whereas our being "screwed" will never happen other than having to deal with people like you while we are alive. Enjoy your wastefulness, your lack of sense, your kludge-like motions and thoughts, for they steal your life. And have a nice day.
November 3, 2010 at 5:30 pm | Report abuse | Reply capnjammer
Actually, it's interesting to note who did most of the persecution and killing... Furthermore, everyone who believes something to any extent will make certain sacrifices for it. According to your argument, Islam is the true faith. You Christians died for your beliefs (or so you say, but, like I said, who was doing most of the killing?), but I've never seen you run into a building with a bomb strapped to your back. I have seen practi-tioners of Vodun pour hot oil into their eyes. I've seen Buddhist monks set themselves on fire for their beliefs. I've seen charismatics allow themselves to be bitten by snakes. We all know that the Meso-Americans were more than willing to bring their own daughters to be sacrificed, and the Hindu Thuggee cult kills people in order to save the world from the wrath of Kali. If anything, your argument only shows how hard-headed you are: dying for your beliefs rather than listening to reason and recanting.
November 3, 2010 at 5:29 pm | Report abuse | Reply capnjammer
@Brad: I replied, but it wasn't nested within your comment properly. Furthermore, why wouldn't they leave the status quo for a cult that was made the state religion by the Roman Empire? The people who were killed were most likely people who wouldn't convert to the new state religion, most likely the people who truly followed the Messianic cult and were against the state subsidization of it. They were most likely all killed off so the Romans could form their new religion (Catholicism) without argument.
And for those of you wondering why the Romans would take on the new religion... the Bible even explains that it was clear that the followers of the Messianic cult were growing in influence. The Roman's tactic for conquest was always to a-ssimilate the culture and religion of the people they wished to conquer, which is why the Greek and Roman pantheon is exactly the same, and (as I said in another post) why Renaissance depictions of Saint Peter picture him with a crooked staff and two fingers held up, exactly like classical depictions of Zeus.
November 3, 2010 at 5:37 pm | Report abuse | Reply Sum Dude
I see this thread has gone "spang" like so many others. Who do we have to thank for it this time?
November 3, 2010 at 5:43 pm | Report abuse | Reply brad
Actually, Catholicism was made the state religion by Constantine long after the first century. Those first Christians converts faced the wrath of Diacletian, Nero, and the like, as well as being thrown out of the synagogue when Romans began putting the heat on the rebelious Jews.
November 3, 2010 at 5:44 pm | Report abuse | Reply Muneef
Here I agree with you that the true Jesus believers and who believed in him as a messenger and not a Son of God were thrown to the beasts.. Wonder if Daniel was before or after but he as well was thrown to the lions by the Romans.
November 3, 2010 at 8:53 pm | Report abuse | Reply Amanda
Luther must have posted his 95 theses. And Christendom went spang!
November 3, 2010 at 5:50 pm | Report abuse | Reply capnjammer
Fact checking is useful, Muneef. The Romans hadn't even begun to exist at the time of Daniel.
November 3, 2010 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse | Reply capnjammer
@Muneef: oh, and isn't it fancifully convenient that it just happens to be the ones who didn't believe he was the son of god who were thrown to the beasts in your belief, while in other's beliefs it was? Can no one see that someone is obviously lying here to make their side sound better? How about instead of listening to your religious leader, you actually look at REAL science and REAL history? Did God not grant you the ability to use your brains? If God is real, as you so ardently a-ssert, then why are you willing to just believe "every wind of doctrine? (Ephesians 4:14) " Whatever happened to "Search the scriptures daily to see if these things be true (Acts 17:11)," "Study to shew thyself approved (II Timothy 2:15)," "Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear (I Peter 3:15)," "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (I John 4:1)," "No Scripture is of any private interpretation (II Peter 1:20)" which literally means the words of Scripture should not be taught by any one single man, or the injunctions in the Bible that in the last days teachers would come with false doctrines that seem real? What about the scripture that says that Satan deceives with false doctrines that have the appearance of the truth, and that he will give a "strong delusion" to most of the world?
So why not test your religion by researching others, using outside sources, and studying to shew thyself approved? Let me guess: your answer is probably going to be that, since I'm an atheist, I couldn't possibly be interpreting those verses right, or some other weak and worthless argument.
November 3, 2010 at 9:26 pm | Report abuse | Reply Muneef
@capnjammer. As it happens I was only writing what I became to know so I would be guided to the truth of things. Then I am a Muslim and know about Quran verses only and not the Bible words beside I read many of your posts which tells you been in to many beliefs but Islam was not one of them and I am sorry for that "not for not becoming Muslim but for not understanding it or giving a chance to be studied... Yes agree with you that not every Rabbi or Priest or Imam could be true because many among them are the tools of the devil and would make of some thing ugly look good or good look ugly and which more of them became in this era which we call to be the Army of the dijjal or the so called Anti Christ which in fact is the Anti Religion.. But as you said we have minds and brains to decide for our selves what to take and what to leave out, so I take my religion as a link between me and God worship and prayers but not as politics or hatred or Doctrine nor I have any religious leader than the Quran and Prophet Muhammed. But if you were referring to those thrown to the beasts,well this was not in the Quran it was in a book I once read that spoke that companions of Jesus were divided in to three groups two of which who made Jesus as son of God and trinity have united against the one who had the believe that Jesus was a messenger of God and fought them driving them to ext,inction
November 3, 2010 at 9:47 pm | Report abuse | Reply Muneef
But since I couldn't assume if the book was right or wrong got me to wonder if any like that existed..even for Daniel is not mentioned in the Quran but have read a book of stories of the messengers of God which I assume got the story from any other holy book other than the Quran and told he was thrown to the lions ring and that's what made me think of the Romans since they were the ones enjoying this murders as as a sport. So my appologies if got you confused or think that I was trying some thing shine on account of another.
November 3, 2010 at 9:54 pm | Report abuse | Reply capnjammer
Lion's Den, not lion's ring. But now, I'm only picking. Mainly, it's because I feel the need after you made an assumption about me: that I never studied Islam. II did. Islam actually very much interested me after I heard about the supposed scientific miracles in the Quran. I studied it and them extensively, and actually spoke to several Muslim friends of mine. There is no more truth to Islam than to Christianity, or any other religion.
Let me point something out: I have said already that I have proof that Jesus was not who he is portrayed to be, and in fact is just a mashup of several fictional and mythological characters. But the Quran says he is real and a great teacher. We obviously already have a contradiction.
Feel free to drop by my blog and message me. I'm willing to listen to whatever you have to say, as long as you are willing to accept my rebuttal. If what you say is true, I shouldn't be able to defy it.
November 3, 2010 at 11:55 pm | Report abuse | Reply Sandra
Capnjammer
I am going to read your website as time permits. It looks very well done. I am a Christian, and I find you to be a very civil debater. I have some questions to ask, but will not do them here, as I see alot of insults and attacks. I would like to ask you my questions, (not trying to convert you either,lol) on your website, if thats ok? I feel confident you will answer with an honest heart and thats what I want . Thanks!
November 4, 2010 at 8:49 am | Report abuse | Reply Muneef
@capnjammer. Very well said and it will be my pleasure to be in posts with you but is there some where else you refer to other than this as I see you talk about a blog and Sandra mentions a website that you have so which one you mean and address. Thanking you.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Dan Gilgoff and Eric Marrapodi, with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team and frequent posts from religion scholar and author Stephen Prothero.
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